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Reading one of the current threads started me thinking about my attitudes when I
started working. In my twenties (the 70's) I had waist length hair, wore
cheesecloth shirts, an afghan coat, flares with inserts, smoked dope and thought
that we were on the way to eradicating poverty and war. I must have been "hell
on wheels" as an employee.
Is there anyone else around from that time and how have things panned out from
your youth?
Regards
Stephen
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Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:
> Reading one of the current threads started me thinking about my attitudes when I
> started working. In my twenties (the 70's) I had waist length hair, wore
> cheesecloth shirts, an afghan coat, flares with inserts, smoked dope and thought
> that we were on the way to eradicating poverty and war. I must have been "hell
> on wheels" as an employee.
The problem I see with the hippie ideology is that it's a kind of
"wouldn't it be nice if" ideology without any real solutions which work
in the real world.
It would indeed be very nice if everyone could just co-exist in peace,
if everyone loved everyone else, if everyone made love, not war, if nobody
was greedy and malevolent.
However, unfortunately, the world just doesn't work that way. Wishing it
did doesn't make it so. Crime won't stop by wishful thinking, the need for
a police force (in all senses of the term, including at international level)
doesn't go away by simply wishing so. Major problems aren't solved by
protest marches (not in the long run anyways). Unfortunately even world
hunger will not be solved by simply blindly throwing money to the problem.
The basic problem I see with the hippie ideology is that it wishes the
world was simple, while it isn't. The world is very complicated.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> However, unfortunately, the world just doesn't work that way. Wishing it
> did doesn't make it so. Crime won't stop by wishful thinking, the need for
> a police force (in all senses of the term, including at international level)
> doesn't go away by simply wishing so. Major problems aren't solved by
> protest marches (not in the long run anyways). Unfortunately even world
> hunger will not be solved by simply blindly throwing money to the problem.
>
> The basic problem I see with the hippie ideology is that it wishes the
> world was simple, while it isn't. The world is very complicated.
Are we past the point of being able to make a major democratic movement
(as in the Boston Tea Party)? That was quite a revolution! It actually
made a difference.
Sam
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stbenge wrote:
> Warp wrote:
>> However, unfortunately, the world just doesn't work that way.
>> Wishing it
>> did doesn't make it so. Crime won't stop by wishful thinking, the need
>> for
>> a police force (in all senses of the term, including at international
>> level)
>> doesn't go away by simply wishing so. Major problems aren't solved by
>> protest marches (not in the long run anyways). Unfortunately even world
>> hunger will not be solved by simply blindly throwing money to the
>> problem.
>>
>> The basic problem I see with the hippie ideology is that it wishes the
>> world was simple, while it isn't. The world is very complicated.
>
> Are we past the point of being able to make a major democratic movement
> (as in the Boston Tea Party)? That was quite a revolution! It actually
> made a difference.
>
> Sam
>
In the USA, we are pretty close to that point. Look at the media circus
around the student who got tased.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Florida_Taser_incident
In all that, people got their cell phone cameras out. Who jumped up and
actually defended the guy? I can't believe that everyone in that room
knew this guy was 'a prankster', if that part of the story is true. So
why did no one stand up and help?
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Warp wrote:
> Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:
>> Reading one of the current threads started me thinking about my attitudes when I
>> started working. In my twenties (the 70's) I had waist length hair, wore
>> cheesecloth shirts, an afghan coat, flares with inserts, smoked dope and thought
>> that we were on the way to eradicating poverty and war. I must have been "hell
>> on wheels" as an employee.
>
> The problem I see with the hippie ideology is that it's a kind of
> "wouldn't it be nice if" ideology without any real solutions which work
> in the real world.
>
> It would indeed be very nice if everyone could just co-exist in peace,
> if everyone loved everyone else, if everyone made love, not war, if nobody
> was greedy and malevolent.
>
> However, unfortunately, the world just doesn't work that way. Wishing it
> did doesn't make it so. Crime won't stop by wishful thinking, the need for
> a police force (in all senses of the term, including at international level)
> doesn't go away by simply wishing so. Major problems aren't solved by
> protest marches (not in the long run anyways). Unfortunately even world
> hunger will not be solved by simply blindly throwing money to the problem.
>
> The basic problem I see with the hippie ideology is that it wishes the
> world was simple, while it isn't. The world is very complicated.
>
Wishing to make things better might not work, but if it gets you to at
least try then it's better then nothing. Wishing alone might just be as
good as not doing anything. That still doesn't make the ideology wrong.
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And lo on Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:51:40 -0000, stbenge <stb### [at] hotmail com>
did spake, saying:
> Warp wrote:
>> However, unfortunately, the world just doesn't work that way. Wishing
>> it
>> did doesn't make it so. Crime won't stop by wishful thinking, the need
>> for
>> a police force (in all senses of the term, including at international
>> level)
>> doesn't go away by simply wishing so. Major problems aren't solved by
>> protest marches (not in the long run anyways). Unfortunately even world
>> hunger will not be solved by simply blindly throwing money to the
>> problem.
>> The basic problem I see with the hippie ideology is that it wishes
>> the
>> world was simple, while it isn't. The world is very complicated.
>
> Are we past the point of being able to make a major democratic movement
> (as in the Boston Tea Party)?
You mean that terrorist action against the government ;-)
> That was quite a revolution! It actually made a difference.
Yeah, but that was in ye olden days when there were only 50 people living
in the New World, any event such as a cow kicking something was considered
a big deal then.
--
Phil Cook
--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com
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On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 09:31:58 -0000, "Phil Cook"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>You mean that terrorist action against the government ;-)
>
>> That was quite a revolution! It actually made a difference.
It still rankles, doesn't it?
It is a good job we lost or it would be our fault :)
Regards
Stephen
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On 18 Jan 2008 07:43:22 -0500, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
>
> The basic problem I see with the hippie ideology is that it wishes the
>world was simple, while it isn't. The world is very complicated.
That is very true but a dream is a dream :)
I wonder why mentioning long hair and wacky backy makes people think I was a
hippy? I was more into motorbikes and rock music, oh! And electronics. I mustn't
forget that.
Regards
Stephen
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Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:
> Reading one of the current threads started me thinking about my attitudes when I
> started working. In my twenties (the 70's) I had waist length hair, wore
> cheesecloth shirts, an afghan coat, flares with inserts, smoked dope and thought
> that we were on the way to eradicating poverty and war. I must have been "hell
> on wheels" as an employee.
> Is there anyone else around from that time and how have things panned out from
> your youth?
>
> Regards
> Stephen
I date back to roughly the same period (My "20s" spanned the late 70s and early
80s) Except for the fact that I skipped the drug scene, (I've always believed
that the "Powers That Be" allow easy access to drugs because they help to keep
the poor and powerless poor and powerless.) I was pretty much in the same
socio-political boat. What has changed for me is that my sense of time scale
has greatly expanded (an enlightened global society is NOT just around the
corner) and the scale at which I work for positive change has become much more
local and personal. The problem with "mass" social movements is that they tend
to be a mile wide and an inch deep. For us young naive folks who believed that
the world was about to change, it came as a rude surprise that the great
majority of those who proclaimed a commitment to the Counter Culture were only
following a fashion trend in a lemming-like manner and would soon devolve into
yuppie scum when the fashion changed. As I became more familiar with other
cultures and their histories, (something I HAD to do outside of the context of
the U.S. education system) I became aware that this phenomenon was old news to
many of the world's peoples. An old Zen saying reflects my change in
perspective rather well:
"Wanting to reform the world without discovering your true self is like trying
to cover the whole world with leather to avoid the pain of walking on stones
and thorns. It is simpler to wear shoes."
One can also help others who are willing to make and wear their own "shoes".
Best Regards,
Mike C.
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On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:15:23 EST, "Mike the Elder" <zer### [at] wyanorg>
wrote:
>I date back to roughly the same period (My "20s" spanned the late 70s and early
>80s) Except for the fact that I skipped the drug scene, (I've always believed
>that the "Powers That Be" allow easy access to drugs because they help to keep
>the poor and powerless poor and powerless.)
I know what you mean, "Bread and Circuses". If that is what you mean. In the UK
we use the class system. I just found that my smoke stopped me from drinking.
Not a bad thing in alcohol sodden Glasgow.
>I was pretty much in the same
>socio-political boat. What has changed for me is that my sense of time scale
>has greatly expanded (an enlightened global society is NOT just around the
>corner) and the scale at which I work for positive change has become much more
>local and personal. The problem with "mass" social movements is that they tend
>to be a mile wide and an inch deep. For us young naive folks who believed that
>the world was about to change, it came as a rude surprise that the great
>majority of those who proclaimed a commitment to the Counter Culture were only
>following a fashion trend in a lemming-like manner and would soon devolve into
>yuppie scum when the fashion changed.
Not a truer word spoken.
>As I became more familiar with other
>cultures and their histories, (something I HAD to do outside of the context of
>the U.S. education system) I became aware that this phenomenon was old news to
>many of the world's peoples. An old Zen saying reflects my change in
>perspective rather well:
>
>"Wanting to reform the world without discovering your true self is like trying
>to cover the whole world with leather to avoid the pain of walking on stones
>and thorns. It is simpler to wear shoes."
That seems a bit long winded. I prefer the American one I read in peanuts. "You
can't fight city hall" :)
>One can also help others who are willing to make and wear their own "shoes".
That is what life boils down to. The young have to make their own mistakes but
you can try to help them not make the big mistakes. Omm :)
Or as the EE said Ohmmm!
>
>Best Regards,
>Mike C.
>
Regards
Stephen
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