And lo on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:02:34 -0000, nemesis  
<nam### [at] gmailcom> did spake, saying:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> > from wikipedia:
>> > "In Mesopotamian mythology Lamashtu (Sumerian Dimme) was a female  
>> demon,
>> > monster, malevolent goddess or demigoddess that menaced women during
>> > childbirth and, if possible, kidnapped children while they were
>> > breastfeeding, she would gnaw on their bones and suck their blood, as
>> > well as being charged with a number of other evil deeds."
>> >
>> > yes, clearly JHVH's ways.  fucked up world twisting fucked up minds, I
>> > tell you.
>>
>> Hmmm, shall we look at the plagues that JHVH has visited on the world?
>> The flood?  Yes, he certainly is benevolent, isn't he?
>>
>> The God of the OT was IMHO quite sadistic.  If he/she/it exists, they're
>> not exactly a being that I want looking out for my best interests.

<snip>

> JHVH just demands faith, not sacrifices.

So either God's a 'Worship Me or I'll beat you up' bully or a 'I'll help  
the tribe who showers Me with the most faith' mercenary (or both)?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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And lo on Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:51:07 -0000, nemesis  
<nam### [at] gmailcom> did spake, saying:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:07:12 -0500, nemesis wrote:
>> >  the pagans just didn't know any better.
>>
>> Um, excuse me, used to be a practicing Pagan here.  Raised Lutheran
>> first, opted for Paganism, now closer to atheism.
>>
>> Don't presume to tell me I don't know any better, please.
>
> That's your problem.  I was talking about the pagan peoples from before  
> the covenant and the Word being spread:  they couldn't know it better.

Wasn't that the same argument that the Christians used against the Jews?  
Oh and the same one used by Muslims against Christians (and Jews)?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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Alain <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Most of those tragedies are: 1 self inflicted, or 2 the doing of some peoples.
> Sadam's childs death was purely human caused. Still NO "godly" influences.

we're His children and our actions take part in His plan.

> Statistics show that when you tell someone at the ospital that you will pray for
> him to help him get better, his chances of dying actualy INCREASE!

oh, really?!  care to cite your source?  yes, I demand proof.

But I can understand:  if I was ill and people began praying for my salvation,
I'd know things are truly bad; I'd become more depressed and in turn this would
worse things in the health side.  If you ever want to really help someone,
doesn't tell them you're going to pray for them, pray for them at your
discretion.  I told Jim I'd pray for his soul and he didn't like it at all.

> If needed,
> they will twist some facts, obliterate others and invent a few.

it's not twisting nor inventing:  it's perceveing things under a different
light.

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Alain <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> nemesis nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/12/12 07:04:
> > Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> >> Then I'll ask the Goddess to enlighten you so that you may understand.
> >
> > God or Goddess, it's just a human term for a being beyond the physical, sexual
> > world...
> >
> >
> A God is male.
> A Goddess is female.
>
> They may be placed beyong the physical world by the men who invented them, but
> they definitely are NOT beyong the sexual world!
>
> In my view, ALL Gods are human inventions. The Jewish god is human invention.
> The Christian god is human invention.
> The Muslim god is human invention.
> All the other gods we can find in human History and histories are all human
> inventions, every last one, bar none.

please, don't take the word out of Jim's mouth.  He seems to believe in some
form of deity.  And though gods imagined by humans have gender, it does not
concern this being (imaginary or not) that created the physical Universe,
because sex is just a specific way of life reproduction.  That being is well
beyond sex, matter or the known dimensions...

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On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:02:34 -0500, nemesis wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> > from wikipedia:
>> > "In Mesopotamian mythology Lamashtu (Sumerian Dimme) was a female
>> > demon, monster, malevolent goddess or demigoddess that menaced women
>> > during childbirth and, if possible, kidnapped children while they
>> > were breastfeeding, she would gnaw on their bones and suck their
>> > blood, as well as being charged with a number of other evil deeds."
>> >
>> > yes, clearly JHVH's ways.  fucked up world twisting fucked up minds,
>> > I tell you.
>>
>> Hmmm, shall we look at the plagues that JHVH has visited on the world?
>> The flood?  Yes, he certainly is benevolent, isn't he?
>>
>> The God of the OT was IMHO quite sadistic.  If he/she/it exists,
>> they're not exactly a being that I want looking out for my best
>> interests.
> 
> JHVH didn't go on kidnapping Hebrew's children to suck their blood.  He
> made a covenant with the Hebrews and then with all humanity through
> Jesus death.  JHVH isn't malevolent towards his children, but can help
> them overcome their/His enemies.  JHVH is not sadistic because sadism is
> a weakness of men.  JHVH just demands faith, not sacrifices.  The ones
> who ally themselves with false gods or fallen angels are building their
> own ruin by allowing evil in their hearts...

Huh, and here I thought he wiped out most of the planet with a great 
flood....

Jim

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On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:04:15 -0500, nemesis wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> Then I'll ask the Goddess to enlighten you so that you may understand.
> 
> God or Goddess, it's just a human term for a being beyond the physical,
> sexual world...

Ah, but you've already decided that the Goddess of the Pagans is really 
your god in disguise.  I know many Pagans who would dispute that with 
you...

Jim

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On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:53:55 -0500, nemesis wrote:

> Alain <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>> nemesis nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/12/12 07:04:
>> > Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> >> Then I'll ask the Goddess to enlighten you so that you may
>> >> understand.
>> >
>> > God or Goddess, it's just a human term for a being beyond the
>> > physical, sexual world...
>> >
>> >
>> A God is male.
>> A Goddess is female.
>>
>> They may be placed beyong the physical world by the men who invented
>> them, but they definitely are NOT beyong the sexual world!
>>
>> In my view, ALL Gods are human inventions. The Jewish god is human
>> invention. The Christian god is human invention. The Muslim god is
>> human invention.
>> All the other gods we can find in human History and histories are all
>> human inventions, every last one, bar none.
> 
> please, don't take the word out of Jim's mouth.  He seems to believe in
> some form of deity.  

Not, today.  Tomorrow, who knows?

> And though gods imagined by humans have gender, it
> does not concern this being (imaginary or not) that created the physical
> Universe, because sex is just a specific way of life reproduction.  That
> being is well beyond sex, matter or the known dimensions...

Maybe in your belief system, but not in the systems of others.

You have a problem seeing the world from another's point of view.

Jim

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On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:16:53 -0500, nemesis wrote:

> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> nemesis wrote:
>> > God is not hiding under X or Y, it's everywhere for people with eyes
>> > to see and ears to hear.
>>
>> And if you disagree, you're stupid, ignorant, and about to be punished
> 
> actually, you're just blind. :)

See, there's that hubris of which Darren referred....

Jim

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On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:27:25 -0500, nemesis wrote:

> Baptism at an
> early age like the catholics do doesn't mean much.

Maybe not to you, but to those who practice that, it does.

Jim

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"Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
> So either God's a 'Worship Me or I'll beat you up' bully or a 'I'll help
> the tribe who showers Me with the most faith' mercenary (or both)?

Faith, love, respect and fear are to be expected from those who devote their
lifes to God's will.  Fear not of God, but of His mighty.  Those who have no
fear, respect, love of faith for God may view it under any light they want.

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