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andrel <byt### [at] gmail com> writes:
>> Because with ebooks, it's easier to self publish than it is for
>> musicians to do so.
>
> It is easier to write a book than to record a demo or album, but the
> publishing is just as easy.
True - I meant the whole process.
>> Most of the reason we needed publishers was as a means to get our books
>> into stores.
>
> Just as you need the record company to get your record played on a
> radiostation. If it isn't played in general it won't reach the
> shops. Perhaps with the exception of established bands, but there won't
> be a chance to get established.
Yes, but while lots of people buy ebooks after looking at a sample, I'm
not sure many people buy digital music after listening to samples. It's
more a case of hearing it on the radio/TV first.
>> According to a lot of people, all the marketing they do
>> rarely helps sales.
>
> That might be different indeed for a five minute multiple play and a 2
> days attention span (mostly) single play item.
I meant marketing rarely helps with selling books. I think it helps a
*lot* with music.
> Yes, as it is changing the access to the public for startup bands.
The reason I think music is different is that I don't think many people
buy music they've not heard before - so you still need the leverage to
get on the radio/TV.
>> The other benefit of publishers is editing, etc.
>
> In short I see hardly a difference. Besides my remark was on the
> financial side. Those that own rights do their best to sell their IP as
I've heard the profit margin with (successful) book publishers is much
lower than in the music business - so I suspect there is a
difference. Don't have actual figures, though.
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 13:01:09 -0800, Neeum Zawan wrote:
>>> Because with ebooks, it's easier to self publish than it is for
>>> musicians to do so.
>>
>> It is easier to write a book than to record a demo or album, but the
>> publishing is just as easy.
>
> True - I meant the whole process.
Anybody can write a crap book (or song). Writing a good one? I'd argue
that writing a book and writing a song are about equally the same. I did
music theory and composition once upon a time, and I've published at
least a couple books (not self-published, but through a publisher), and I
can tell you that the process of writing a book is not any harder or
easier than writing a song.
To do so well, you have to know the proper syntaxes and structures to
use. Write a book using incomprehensible language or grammar, and it'll
be crap. Write a song that doesn't at least in some fundamental way
follow basic musical structure, and it'll be nothing more than noise.
Jim
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 12:57:26 -0800, Neeum Zawan wrote:
> Try to see if you can dig up the profit margins publishers operate on.
> It's often quite low. At times, a bestselling author makes more money
> than his publisher does (after you take out expenses).
In my experience (as an author, but not a bestselling author), royalty
rates for authors are typically sub-10% of wholesale (which is half of
the cover price). That's in non-fiction; fiction tends to sell for less
(esp. in paperback) so the royalty structure may be somewhat different,
but for most authors it's not enough that they can give up their jobs and
live off the royalties.
Authors like Stephen King are the exception rather than the rule.
Jim
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> I suspect marketing is a lot more effective with music than with
> books. And music is different: Not many people buy random albums from
> nobodies while in a music store. With books, they do.
Do they?
At least for me, I always try to check for reviews of books and authors...
I'd also imagine it'd be easier to check for good music than for good books: you
just gotta listen for a sample for a while rather than read a few pages...
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On 18/01/2011 5:26 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 11:04:01 +0000, scott wrote:
>
>> eg "Me and John will be
>> coming tomorrow" or "It will be John and I coming tomorrow"
>
> "John and I will be coming tomorrow" - no split infinitive. :-)
>
One thing at a time. Also one singer one song! So keep your neb out of
it ;-)
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 18/01/2011 7:02 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:42:52 -0800, Darren New wrote:
>
>> There's no infinitive in either version.
>
> True, I did misname it - but I found the sentence structure awkward as
> originally written. Just misidentified why it was awkward. :-)
>
Cause it sounds wrong.
How do non-native speakers identify wrong grammer, I wonder?
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 18-1-2011 22:51, Stephen wrote:
> On 18/01/2011 7:02 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 09:42:52 -0800, Darren New wrote:
>>
>>> There's no infinitive in either version.
>>
>> True, I did misname it - but I found the sentence structure awkward as
>> originally written. Just misidentified why it was awkward. :-)
>>
>
> Cause it sounds wrong.
> How do non-native speakers identify wrong grammer, I wonder?
Reading and listening a lot until you get a feeling for the language.
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On 18-1-2011 22:01, Neeum Zawan wrote:
> andrel<byt### [at] gmailcom> writes:
>
>>> According to a lot of people, all the marketing they do
>>> rarely helps sales.
>>
>> That might be different indeed for a five minute multiple play and a 2
>> days attention span (mostly) single play item.
>
> I meant marketing rarely helps with selling books. I think it helps a
> *lot* with music.
My suggestion was that that is a.o. related to the time is takes to
consume one offering.
Note also that most starting bands don't have access to the marketing
channels. (Thank god, the noise would be overwhelming)
>> Yes, as it is changing the access to the public for startup bands.
>
> The reason I think music is different is that I don't think many people
> buy music they've not heard before - so you still need the leverage to
> get on the radio/TV.
But that is what the internet could solve. Last FM and similar sites
that group music by people's taste might be a step (as long as there are
not so many of those that none gets a decent listeners base).
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 21:51:12 +0000, Stephen wrote:
> How do non-native speakers identify wrong grammer, I wonder?
English is an incredibly difficult language from a grammar (and spelling)
standpoint. There are SO many exceptions to every rule, it's a wonder
anyone can get it right more often than not. :-)
Jim
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Neeum Zawan wrote:
> > He didn't say, but it's not hard to believe. Consider Arthur C. Clarke:
> > Isaac Asimov's is similar (15 books).
> > Precious little of Ray Bradbury.
>
> Sure. None of which I'd guess were favorites of anyone's grandparents. :-)
>
> --
> Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
> Serving Suggestion:
> "Don't serve this any more. It's awful."
I'm a grandparent, 10 times in fact, and they're on my list of favorite authors.
Isaac.
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