On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 07:49:33 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:

> Only if everyone that does so wins the lotto. 

Well, I was being very simplistic - it probably wouldn't be stated as 
"you will win the lotto" but something more generic - "you will come into 
some cash".  That's how that sort of thing actually is done.

So someone who wins the lotto will see it as predicting their winning the 
lotto.  Someone who finds $20 on the street will see that as being 
confirmation that it was "predicted".

> Otherwise, not so much.
> Its also rather fiddly. Some morons will take nearly anything as an
> example of "success".

So, are you saying that being optimistic is moronic?  Because after all, 
optimists tend to take what they see that's positive as a sign of success.

Jim

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On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 09:54:06 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I kind of agree with Darren here - this kind of citation is similar to
>> the citations some people use to "disprove" global climate change.
> 
> Or, to put it another way, "the plural of anecdote is not data."

I like that, will have to remember it. :-)

Jim

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On 28-1-2011 15:47, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> On 1/27/2011 3:07 PM, andrel wrote:
>> On 27-1-2011 20:25, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 10:57:57 -0800, Darren New wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>>> But I haven't looked to see how many people are killed accidentally by
>>>>> guns as compared to those who are intentionally killed by guns in the
>>>>> US.
>>>>
>>>> That's the wrong statistic. It should include the number of people
>>>> saved
>>>> by guns in there somewhere.
>>>
>>> Well, I'd argue that the number of accidental homicides, the number of
>>> intentional homicides, and the number of lives saved would all be
>>> relevant statistics to include.
>>
>> Any change of adding the number of homicides in countries with stricter
>> gun-laws by manufactering cheap guns for their criminals?
>>
> Hmm. You mean like NY, where enforcement and gun laws have increased,
> and oddly, the violent crime rate has dropped *faster* than any other
> part of the country? Like that sort of thing?

No, I mean that in the Netherlands most gun related crimes are made 
possible because there is a large enough market in the US to cheaply 
produce them.

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andrel wrote:
> No, I mean that in the Netherlands most gun related crimes are made 
> possible because there is a large enough market in the US to cheaply 
> produce them.

And yet, when each gun needed to be lovingly crafted by hand a hundred or 
more years ago, lots of people still got shot.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
  "How did he die?"   "He got shot in the hand."
     "That was fatal?"
          "He was holding a live grenade at the time."

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On 28-1-2011 23:04, Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> No, I mean that in the Netherlands most gun related crimes are made
>> possible because there is a large enough market in the US to cheaply
>> produce them.
>
> And yet, when each gun needed to be lovingly crafted by hand a hundred
> or more years ago, lots of people still got shot.

I was afraid someone would say something like that, but I can hardly 
believe you missed the 'cheaply' in that sentence. Get over it, your 
second amendment is getting people killed outside the US. But don't 
worry they are mostly foreigners.

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On 28-1-2011 23:12, andrel wrote:
> On 28-1-2011 23:04, Darren New wrote:
>> andrel wrote:
>>> No, I mean that in the Netherlands most gun related crimes are made
>>> possible because there is a large enough market in the US to cheaply
>>> produce them.
>>
>> And yet, when each gun needed to be lovingly crafted by hand a hundred
>> or more years ago, lots of people still got shot.
>
> I was afraid someone would say something like that, but I can hardly
> believe you missed the 'cheaply' in that sentence. Get over it, your
> second amendment is getting people killed outside the US. But don't
> worry they are mostly foreigners.

feel free to insert a few  ;) 's at appropriate places.

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On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 23:15:18 +0100, andrel wrote:

> On 28-1-2011 23:12, andrel wrote:
>> On 28-1-2011 23:04, Darren New wrote:
>>> andrel wrote:
>>>> No, I mean that in the Netherlands most gun related crimes are made
>>>> possible because there is a large enough market in the US to cheaply
>>>> produce them.
>>>
>>> And yet, when each gun needed to be lovingly crafted by hand a hundred
>>> or more years ago, lots of people still got shot.
>>
>> I was afraid someone would say something like that, but I can hardly
>> believe you missed the 'cheaply' in that sentence. Get over it, your
>> second amendment is getting people killed outside the US. But don't
>> worry they are mostly foreigners.
> 
> feel free to insert a few  ;) 's at appropriate places.

That's OK, our second amendment also gets people killed inside the US, 
but don't worry they are mostly people in the US (which I guess would be 
"foreigners" to you, wouldn't it?). ;-)

Jim

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On 28-1-2011 23:16, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 23:15:18 +0100, andrel wrote:
>
>> On 28-1-2011 23:12, andrel wrote:
>>> On 28-1-2011 23:04, Darren New wrote:
>>>> andrel wrote:
>>>>> No, I mean that in the Netherlands most gun related crimes are made
>>>>> possible because there is a large enough market in the US to cheaply
>>>>> produce them.
>>>>
>>>> And yet, when each gun needed to be lovingly crafted by hand a hundred
>>>> or more years ago, lots of people still got shot.
>>>
>>> I was afraid someone would say something like that, but I can hardly
>>> believe you missed the 'cheaply' in that sentence. Get over it, your
>>> second amendment is getting people killed outside the US. But don't
>>> worry they are mostly foreigners.
>>
>> feel free to insert a few  ;) 's at appropriate places.
>
> That's OK, our second amendment also gets people killed inside the US,
> but don't worry they are mostly people in the US (which I guess would be
> "foreigners" to you, wouldn't it?). ;-)

I have fellow countrymen and -women living in the US that I prefer not 
to be shot, as well as friends among the US citizens. But other than 
those, I don't care. ;)

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On 28-1-2011 22:01, andrel wrote:
> On 28-1-2011 15:47, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>> On 1/27/2011 3:07 PM, andrel wrote:
>>> On 27-1-2011 20:25, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 10:57:57 -0800, Darren New wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>>>> But I haven't looked to see how many people are killed
>>>>>> accidentally by
>>>>>> guns as compared to those who are intentionally killed by guns in the
>>>>>> US.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the wrong statistic. It should include the number of people
>>>>> saved
>>>>> by guns in there somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I'd argue that the number of accidental homicides, the number of
>>>> intentional homicides, and the number of lives saved would all be
>>>> relevant statistics to include.
>>>
>>> Any change of adding the number of homicides in countries with stricter
>>> gun-laws by manufactering cheap guns for their criminals?
>>>
>> Hmm. You mean like NY, where enforcement and gun laws have increased,
>> and oddly, the violent crime rate has dropped *faster* than any other
>> part of the country? Like that sort of thing?
>
> No, I mean that in the Netherlands most gun related crimes are made
> possible because there is a large enough market in the US to cheaply
> produce them.

BTW for completeness sake we also need to factor in those saved here by 
the guns made in and for the US market...
Anyone else can think of a likely scenario, cause I can't?

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On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 23:21:40 +0100, andrel wrote:

> I have fellow countrymen and -women living in the US that I prefer not
> to be shot, as well as friends among the US citizens. But other than
> those, I don't care. ;)

Ah, but doesn't their well-being depend on the well being of others in 
the country? ;-)

Jim

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