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andrel wrote:
> No we have passports and ID cards for that.
And what do you show to get your first passport or ID card?
> Seems like another round where only USAsians and civilians of countries
> with equal defective administrations can enter. ;)
When did you get your first ID card? And how?
>> When people ask you where you were born, you don't say "right in this
>> seat, just a moment ago."
>
> Please define "person" and "you" (or "me").
That's what I'm getting at.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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scott wrote:
>> Are you the same person you were as a baby?
>
> It seems that in general speech we use "same person" to mean different
> things:
>
> "He wasn't the same person after his accident."
That would be round two. ;-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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On 11/05/2010 6:13, Darren New wrote:
> Zeger Knaepen wrote:
>> On 10/05/2010 23:14, Darren New wrote:
>>> Are you the same person you were as a baby?
>>
>> no
>
> Yet, oddly enough, you present your birth certificate as proof of identity.
no I don't, I don't even think I've ever seen my birth certificate
> When people ask you where you were born, you don't say "right in this
> seat, just a moment ago."
two reasons:
1. that wasn't my birth
2. explaining to people that I'm not the same person as I was when I was
born, or even a second ago, is not really what they want to know when
they ask that question :)
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Zeger Knaepen wrote:
> two reasons:
> 1. that wasn't my birth
But you're not the same person who was born.
> 2. explaining to people that I'm not the same person as I was when I was
> born, or even a second ago, is not really what they want to know when
> they ask that question :)
Exactly. Because nobody thinks of themselves that way. It's still "you" that
ate breakfast this morning.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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On 11/05/2010 19:24, Darren New wrote:
> Zeger Knaepen wrote:
>> two reasons:
>> 1. that wasn't my birth
>
> But you're not the same person who was born.
both physically and mentally, indeed, I'm not. But that has nothing to
do with the fact that I wasn't born in this seat. I was partly 'formed'
in this seat, but there was no birth-process involved :)
>> 2. explaining to people that I'm not the same person as I was when I
>> was born, or even a second ago, is not really what they want to know
>> when they ask that question :)
>
> Exactly. Because nobody thinks of themselves that way. It's still "you"
> that ate breakfast this morning.
Linquistically speaking, yes, that was me. Scientifically speaking:
that was most of me (some new cells in my body might have been created,
and some old cells probably have been shed since). Philosophically
speaking: it's not even sure reality existed this morning :)
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On 11-5-2010 19:07, Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> No we have passports and ID cards for that.
>
> And what do you show to get your first passport or ID card?
>
>> Seems like another round where only USAsians and civilians of
>> countries with equal defective administrations can enter. ;)
>
> When did you get your first ID card? And how?
That was 30 odd years ago. How? I don't remember. But as there is no way
to link my appearance then to what I looked like when I was born, I do
not suppose the birth certificate played a role, other than proving that
I did exist (but they could look that up in the database anyway (then a
collection of cards, I assume)). My best guess is that my mum was there
to say that I was indeed her son.
Identification is generally by facial appearance, for that you need an
unbroken line of pictures where from one to the next you can with almost
certainty say that the face in the picture is the same. Lacking that you
need a witness. Interesting problem, but not the one you were aiming at.
Story: one day I was travelling to France by train (before the EU). In
the train at the border they did check our passports. The man from the
customs looked at the picture in my passport, then at me, then back at
the picture. I though he was making fun of me, so I reacted in a way
expressing that I though he was joking (not American of Israeli customs,
so it was reasonably safe). I got my passport back and was allowed to
continue my journey. Then I looked at the picture myself. Big lot of
hair standing out almost afro-like and clean shaven. My image in the
mirror: long sleek hair in a pony tail and a beard and moustache. The
guy had a point. When getting my new passport with a better matching
picture, the guy at the office that checked the old and new pictures
also did not blink and simply accepted that I was me (whatever that
means). I know that I looked like that 20 years ago otherwise I might
not even recognize myself, my earlier self.
>>> When people ask you where you were born, you don't say "right in this
>>> seat, just a moment ago."
>>
>> Please define "person" and "you" (or "me").
>
> That's what I'm getting at.
I know.
BTW are we later on going to play the same game with species and
forefathers? (for your convenience: just say no).
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On 11-5-2010 19:24, Darren New wrote:
> Zeger Knaepen wrote:
>> two reasons:
>> 1. that wasn't my birth
>
> But you're not the same person who was born.
says who?
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andrel wrote:
> On 11-5-2010 19:24, Darren New wrote:
>> Zeger Knaepen wrote:
>>> two reasons:
>>> 1. that wasn't my birth
>>
>> But you're not the same person who was born.
>
> says who?
Zeger.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Ada - the programming language trying to avoid
you literally shooting yourself in the foot.
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On 11-5-2010 21:03, Darren New wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> On 11-5-2010 19:24, Darren New wrote:
>>> Zeger Knaepen wrote:
>>>> two reasons:
>>>> 1. that wasn't my birth
>>>
>>> But you're not the same person who was born.
>>
>> says who?
>
> Zeger.
are you sure?
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Zeger Knaepen <zeg### [at] povplace com> wrote:
> On 11/05/2010 19:24, Darren New wrote:
> > Zeger Knaepen wrote:
> >> two reasons:
> >> 1. that wasn't my birth
> >
> > But you're not the same person who was born.
>
> both physically and mentally, indeed, I'm not. But that has nothing to
> do with the fact that I wasn't born in this seat. I was partly 'formed'
> in this seat, but there was no birth-process involved :)
I like to think the baby that was born is the kernel running user-level programs
that were developed throughout life. Our most visible facet is a shell really.
:)
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