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>>> Yes that seems silly, it would mean my car would never lock as there are
>>> typically only a couple of walls between my keys and my car. Are there
>>> no buttons on the "key" to force it to lock?
>> There are, but the markings on them have almost completely worn off, so
>> I can't tell what they do.
>
> Doesn't the manual tell you all this info? I'd have a quick flick through that
> if it were me.
Yeah, I only got the car last night. I hope they included a manual...
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> More interesting is the fact that you can't turn the lights off, even when
> the engine isn't running. Sounds like a nice recipe for a flat battery!
Most cars now will switch off any electrical devices after a certain time to
avoid a flat battery.
> I have never seen any car anywhere with 6 gears in my entire life.
What has that got to do with what actually exists and is being made out
there in the real world?
> I still don't really see what the advantage is. (Other than that bigger
> numbers sell more...)
You can keep the engine revs in your desired range (eg for quietness, fuel
economy or performance) for more of the time. If you only have 4 gears that
span from 5 to 120 mph, then you are going to be forced to use a very wide
range of the engine's rpm, with 6 gears you get more choice of whether to
stay 1000-2000 rpm for quietness, 4000-6000 rpm for performance, etc.
At one extreme you have a car with just one gear, a lot of go-karts are like
this, and it's just like driving a car stuck in 3rd gear. The acceleration
is rubbish until about 40 mph, then you get a kick of power up to about 80,
then you're on the rev-limiter so can't go any faster. The other extreme is
trucks, they have like 30 gears, and they need that many because the big
diesel engines typically only produce useful power over a very narrow range
of speeds.
>> Uhh, why? I have never thought to myself "oh i wish i had a 7th gear to
>> change up into now".
>
> I think that all the time...
What benefit would that give?
> I was under the impression that drum brakes are more efficient.
The problem with drum brakes is that all the heat builds up inside and can't
go anywhere, a drum brake designed for a certain application will be bigger
and heavier than a disc brake capable of dissipating the same amount of
heat. Anyway, today, only the smallest cars have drum brakes, and even then
only on the rear two wheels where not much braking effort needs to be done.
I think they are cheaper, and help with connecting in the handbrake or
something.
> I already did that. It tells me it's a 2.0 L engine and that the CO2
> emissions are 191 g/Km (I don't know if that's measured or spec'd), and
> the date of manufacture. Doesn't tell me anything extra about the exact
> model. (In fact, you have to tell then the make and model along with the
> registration number.)
Hmm, I thought I recalled it giving more info than that. Maybe try a couple
of those online insurance quote websites, they quite often take your
registration number and give you the spec. Or if all else fails simply take
it to a Renault dealer and ask them, they will likely check the serial
number and find it out for you.
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Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> >>> Yes that seems silly, it would mean my car would never lock as there are
> >>> typically only a couple of walls between my keys and my car. Are there
> >>> no buttons on the "key" to force it to lock?
> >> There are, but the markings on them have almost completely worn off, so
> >> I can't tell what they do.
> >
> > Doesn't the manual tell you all this info? I'd have a quick flick through that
> > if it were me.
>
> Yeah, I only got the car last night. I hope they included a manual...
Check the glovebox :). Even if it's missing (I assume this is a used car?) you
should be able to find something online.
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>> More interesting is the fact that you can't turn the lights off, even
>> when the engine isn't running. Sounds like a nice recipe for a flat
>> battery!
>
> Most cars now will switch off any electrical devices after a certain
> time to avoid a flat battery.
Here's to hoping...
>> I have never seen any car anywhere with 6 gears in my entire life.
>
> What has that got to do with what actually exists and is being made out
> there in the real world?
Well, I've seen quite a few cars, and almost all of them had 4 gears. I
suppose alternatively I could pluck numbers out of thin air and claim
that had more to do with reality. :-P
>> I still don't really see what the advantage is. (Other than that
>> bigger numbers sell more...)
>
> You can keep the engine revs in your desired range (eg for quietness,
> fuel economy or performance) for more of the time. If you only have 4
> gears that span from 5 to 120 mph, then you are going to be forced to
> use a very wide range of the engine's rpm, with 6 gears you get more
> choice of whether to stay 1000-2000 rpm for quietness, 4000-6000 rpm for
> performance, etc.
And yet, the gears are spaced so that changing gear is only useful at
speeds below 50 MPH. Once you're doing more than 50, you're in top gear
and there's no advantage. That's what I don't get.
> The other extreme is trucks, they have like 30 gears, and they need that
> many because the big diesel engines typically only produce useful power
> over a very narrow range of speeds.
...seriously?? O_O
>>> Uhh, why? I have never thought to myself "oh i wish i had a 7th gear
>>> to change up into now".
>>
>> I think that all the time...
>
> What benefit would that give?
It's just that when the engine revs get high, you feel like you should
be changing up a gear. (But there aren't any.)
I guess it might allow you to cruse along the motorways at high speed
without having to have the engine running at 8,000 RPM, which might
reduce wear a little... but no, not much of an advantage. (And yet...
this car has 6 gears for some reason.)
>> I was under the impression that drum brakes are more efficient.
>
> The problem with drum brakes is that all the heat builds up inside and
> can't go anywhere, a drum brake designed for a certain application will
> be bigger and heavier than a disc brake capable of dissipating the same
> amount of heat. Anyway, today, only the smallest cars have drum brakes,
> and even then only on the rear two wheels where not much braking effort
> needs to be done. I think they are cheaper, and help with connecting in
> the handbrake or something.
Interesting. I always through disk brakes are cheaper, so they use those
where they can't afford to fit propper drum brakes.
>> I already did that. It tells me it's a 2.0 L engine and that the CO2
>> emissions are 191 g/Km (I don't know if that's measured or spec'd),
>> and the date of manufacture. Doesn't tell me anything extra about the
>> exact model. (In fact, you have to tell then the make and model along
>> with the registration number.)
>
> Hmm, I thought I recalled it giving more info than that.
I had expected it to also... but no.
> Maybe try a
> couple of those online insurance quote websites, they quite often take
> your registration number and give you the spec. Or if all else fails
> simply take it to a Renault dealer and ask them, they will likely check
> the serial number and find it out for you.
Yeah, I could do...
I know it's a Renault Megane Dynamique 2.0 L pretrol, but I can't figure
out exactly what engine type it is.
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>> Yeah, I only got the car last night. I hope they included a manual...
>
> Check the glovebox :)
WIN!
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> Well, I've seen quite a few cars, and almost all of them had 4 gears.
Funny, I usually take about 10 rental cars per year and I don't recall any
of them ever having 4 gears, even when I picked the absolute cheapest one
they offered. Can you give any examples?
> And yet, the gears are spaced so that changing gear is only useful at
> speeds below 50 MPH. Once you're doing more than 50, you're in top gear
> and there's no advantage.
Some people like to accelerate above 50 MPH you know :-) I suspect at 50
mph in your car you still have the choice of 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th gears,
how is that not useful? Even at 80 mph I suspect that 4th gear would still
be available to give you the maximum acceleration (should you ever need it).
That's the idea of gears.
> It's just that when the engine revs get high, you feel like you should be
> changing up a gear. (But there aren't any.)
Driving around at low revs might be fine at low speeds, but at higher speeds
you *need* the higher rpms to generate the power to overcome the air drag.
6th gear is designed specifically so that the engine is developing its
maximum power at the top speed of your car, otherwise you wouldn't be able
to reach that speed!
> I guess it might allow you to cruse along the motorways at high speed
> without having to have the engine running at 8,000 RPM,
If you are revving near the redline in top gear then it probably means you
*need* that much power from your engine to maintain that speed. If you
change up a gear you're no longer going to have the torque needed to
maintain that speed.
> Interesting. I always through disk brakes are cheaper, so they use those
> where they can't afford to fit propper drum brakes.
Hehe no, otherwise F1 cars would use drum brakes and cheap cars would use
disc brakes. It's the other way around.
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scott wrote:
>> Well, I've seen quite a few cars, and almost all of them had 4 gears.
>
> Funny, I usually take about 10 rental cars per year and I don't recall
> any of them ever having 4 gears, even when I picked the absolute
> cheapest one they offered. Can you give any examples?
>
>> And yet, the gears are spaced so that changing gear is only useful at
>> speeds below 50 MPH. Once you're doing more than 50, you're in top
>> gear and there's no advantage.
>
> Some people like to accelerate above 50 MPH you know :-) I suspect at
> 50 mph in your car you still have the choice of 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th
> gears, how is that not useful? Even at 80 mph I suspect that 4th gear
> would still be available to give you the maximum acceleration (should
> you ever need it). That's the idea of gears.
Doesn't match what I have observed. If this were the case, it would be
*useful*, and indeed this is was I was expecting to find.
On the contrary, it appears that unless you're in 6th gear, you can't
exceed about 65 MPH.
If the gears were more spaced out, then at high speed I'd have a choice
of gears, and I could use that to get more acceleration. But no, the
gears are all bunched up at the low speeds, where I didn't have an
acceleration problem in the first place, even with my old Pergeot with
just 4 gears. This is what's puzzling me.
>> It's just that when the engine revs get high, you feel like you should
>> be changing up a gear. (But there aren't any.)
>
> Driving around at low revs might be fine at low speeds, but at higher
> speeds you *need* the higher rpms to generate the power to overcome the
> air drag. 6th gear is designed specifically so that the engine is
> developing its maximum power at the top speed of your car, otherwise you
> wouldn't be able to reach that speed!
Mmm, OK.
BTW, is drag proportional to speed linearly? Or quadratically? Or...?
>> Interesting. I always through disk brakes are cheaper, so they use
>> those where they can't afford to fit propper drum brakes.
>
> Hehe no, otherwise F1 cars would use drum brakes and cheap cars would
> use disc brakes. It's the other way around.
It's news to me that it *is* the other way around. I thought F1 cars had
drum brakes. (You'll be surprised to hear that I haven't actually taken
too many F1 cars apart.)
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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> I have a new car.
I don't have even a driver's license.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> I have a new car.
>
> I don't have even a driver's license.
This does not preclude you from owning a car. Only from driving one. On
a public road. Which is basically the only sane reason for owning a car
in the first place. But still! What was I talking about? Hmm...
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> On the contrary, it appears that unless you're in 6th gear, you can't
> exceed about 65 MPH.
Wow. Are you really saying that at 60mph the RPMs in 5th gear are at 6000
or something? That sounds more like 3rd gear in my car - I can see now why
you are annoyed!
> BTW, is drag proportional to speed linearly? Or quadratically? Or...?
Roughly speed squared. But the power needed to overcome a certain force is
also proportional to the speed. So in the end the power needed to maintain
a certain speed is proportional to speed cubed.
> It's news to me that it *is* the other way around. I thought F1 cars had
> drum brakes. (You'll be surprised to hear that I haven't actually taken
> too many F1 cars apart.)
You used to be able to see them easily before they started using those silly
bits of aerodynamic plastic around them. You can also sometimes see the
discs glowing bright orange through the wheel under heavy braking.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/formula-one-12.gif
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