>> A car made by Toyota that has much lower CO2 output than most other 
>> American cars :-)
>
> ...but Toyota is Japanese...?

They sell a lot in America though.

> More importantly, I gather that most American cars are horrifyingly 
> inefficient, so beating that shouldn't be too hard I'd guess. I don't 
> really know.

I think that's why they sell a lot.  The issue in Europe is that you can 
just go and buy a small efficient diesel car for half the price of the Prius 
and it will have similar CO2 and mpg.  So there isn't any reason to get a 
Prius.

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scott wrote:
>>> A car made by Toyota that has much lower CO2 output than most other 
>>> American cars :-)
>>
>> ...but Toyota is Japanese...?
> 
> They sell a lot in America though.

Ah, OK.

>> More importantly, I gather that most American cars are horrifyingly 
>> inefficient, so beating that shouldn't be too hard I'd guess. I don't 
>> really know.
> 
> I think that's why they sell a lot.

Really?

> The issue in Europe is that you can 
> just go and buy a small efficient diesel car for half the price of the 
> Prius and it will have similar CO2 and mpg.  So there isn't any reason 
> to get a Prius.

Oh, I see. I thought you meant that American cars sell well because 
they're horrifyingly inefficient! :-D

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Invisible wrote:
> Interesting fact: In elliptic geometry, pi is less than arcsine 1.

It's less than arcsine 1 where you're sitting right now. That's why they say 
gravity bends space-time.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Forget "focus follows mouse." When do
   I get "focus follows gaze"?

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Invisible wrote:
> ...but Toyota is Japanese...?

Toyota is *originally* japanese. Like any giant manufacturing company in 
industries heavily tariffed, they have plants all over the world, including 
the USA.

> More importantly, I gather that most American cars are horrifyingly 
> inefficient, 

Not especially. They're *bigger* than what you find in downtown london, for 
the most part, but the Prius gets something like 40+MPG while still holding 
four people plus a bit of luggage.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   Forget "focus follows mouse." When do
   I get "focus follows gaze"?

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>> More importantly, I gather that most American cars are horrifyingly 
>> inefficient, 
> 
> Not especially. They're *bigger* than what you find in downtown london, 
> for the most part, but the Prius gets something like 40+MPG while still 
> holding four people plus a bit of luggage.

Heck, my Renault Megan holds 5 people and gets roughly 45 MPG.

[Or rather, it did until recently... I haven't figured out why it's 
suddenly started rapidly decreasing.]

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> but the Prius gets something like 40+MPG while still holding four people 
> plus a bit of luggage.

Cars that get 40+ American MPG (48 UK MPG, 5.9 litres / 100 km) while 
holding 5 people and luggage are normal here in Europe - plus they're faster 
than the Prius.

One word.  Diesel.

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> Cars that get 40+ American MPG (48 UK MPG, 5.9 litres / 100 km) while 
> holding 5 people and luggage are normal here in Europe

If Top Gear is to be believed, American cars also can't corner.

> One word.  Diesel.

...

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> Heck, my Renault Megan holds 5 people and gets roughly 45 MPG.

My car too holds 5 people plus luggage, gets 55 MPG (if I don't go too fast 
on the autobahn!), plus seems to be way faster than a Prius (3 seconds 
faster to 60 mph, and 30 mph faster top speed).  It's nothing special.

BTW UK MPGs are different to American ones.  40 American MPG = 48 UK MPG

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Invisible wrote:
> http://www.xkcd.com/687/
> 
> Interesting fact: In elliptic geometry, pi is less than arcsine 1. In 
> hyperbolic geometry, it's more than arcsine 1.

I don't think this is true -- pi is defined in Euclidean space.  Read 
the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on it.

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scott wrote:
> 
> Cars that get 40+ American MPG (48 UK MPG, 5.9 litres / 100 km) while
> holding 5 people and luggage are normal here in Europe - plus they're
> faster than the Prius.

I'll be waiting over 42 American MPG with just enough room for 5 people
and some luggage (OTOH most of the time just me, secondarily me and
Sonic) - even with the warming needed at winter - still having
150bhp/320Nm (upgradeable to 175bhp/370Nm with just a software) with
pretty decent equipment. Sure, it'll be one of the last of it's kind,
but I'm still sure it'll give a good ride for the next 5 years (roughly
300Mm's). Can't wait for next week :).

> One word.  Diesel.

Yep. I ordered a Saab 9-3 SC Vector TiDS. Got something like 7ke off
from retail price, since the car is MY09, manufactured just to keep the
factory running while guessing the future.

-Aero

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