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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: And you thought flash was only good for youtube.
Date: 27 Nov 2009 04:51:52
Message: <4b0fa138@news.povray.org>
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>> You know that Ogg is only a container format, not a codec, right? ;-)
>
> I was told by a ffmpeg developer that ogg is quite a crap container format,
> and that Matroska is way better. Of course, you're free to use it with
> Theora and Vorbis (the codecs usually used with Ogg).
I've read the Ogg spec. Looks OK to me.
(Then again, the only other container format I know of is IFF...)
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From: Warp
Subject: Re: And you thought flash was only good for youtube.
Date: 27 Nov 2009 05:14:09
Message: <4b0fa671@news.povray.org>
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Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmail com> wrote:
> Neeum Zawan wrote:
> > You can Google the codec up yourself. I'm too lazy. Is Vorbis a (video)
> > codec?
> Vorbis is audio. Theora is video. Ogg is container.
And a codec is a piece of software, so it's nothing of those.
--
- Warp
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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: And you thought flash was only good for youtube.
Date: 27 Nov 2009 05:27:24
Message: <4b0fa98c@news.povray.org>
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Warp wrote:
> And a codec is a piece of software, so it's nothing of those.
Really? I thought the term "codec" refers to the data format, and the
algorithm for producing/consuming it? (I.e., the specification document
is the codec, the software is an "implementation of" the codec, and any
files using it are "uses of" the codec.)
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From: Warp
Subject: Re: And you thought flash was only good for youtube.
Date: 27 Nov 2009 09:48:11
Message: <4b0fe6ab@news.povray.org>
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Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > And a codec is a piece of software, so it's nothing of those.
> Really? I thought the term "codec" refers to the data format, and the
> algorithm for producing/consuming it? (I.e., the specification document
> is the codec, the software is an "implementation of" the codec, and any
> files using it are "uses of" the codec.)
"A codec is a device or computer program capable of encoding and/or
decoding a digital data stream or signal. The word codec is a
portmanteau (a blending of two or more words) of
'compressor-decompressor' or, more accurately, 'coder-decoder'."
It's a piece of software (or hardware, if we are technical).
--
- Warp
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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: And you thought flash was only good for youtube.
Date: 27 Nov 2009 10:09:04
Message: <4b0feb90$1@news.povray.org>
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>>> And a codec is a piece of software, so it's nothing of those.
>
>> Really? I thought the term "codec" refers to the data format, and the
>> algorithm for producing/consuming it? (I.e., the specification document
>> is the codec, the software is an "implementation of" the codec, and any
>> files using it are "uses of" the codec.)
>
> "A codec is a device or computer program capable of encoding and/or
> decoding a digital data stream or signal. The word codec is a
> portmanteau (a blending of two or more words) of
> 'compressor-decompressor' or, more accurately, 'coder-decoder'."
>
> It's a piece of software (or hardware, if we are technical).
Mmm, interesting...
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From: Eero Ahonen
Subject: Re: And you thought flash was only good for youtube.
Date: 28 Nov 2009 14:31:58
Message: <4b117aae$1@news.povray.org>
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Warp wrote:
>
> It's a piece of software (or hardware, if we are technical).
>
And when it's a piece of hardware, it most probably is a piece on
software on that hardware ;-).
-Aero
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From: Warp
Subject: Re: And you thought flash was only good for youtube.
Date: 28 Nov 2009 17:50:59
Message: <4b11a953@news.povray.org>
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Eero Ahonen <aer### [at] removethis zbxt net invalid> wrote:
> And when it's a piece of hardware, it most probably is a piece on
> software on that hardware ;-).
With simpler codecs it could be hardwired, so no software.
--
- Warp
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From: Eero Ahonen
Subject: Re: And you thought flash was only good for youtube.
Date: 29 Nov 2009 05:11:13
Message: <4b1248c1$1@news.povray.org>
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Warp wrote:
> Eero Ahonen <aer### [at] removethis zbxt net invalid> wrote:
>> And when it's a piece of hardware, it most probably is a piece on
>> software on that hardware ;-).
>
> With simpler codecs it could be hardwired, so no software.
>
Well yes, it's possible - that's why "probably".
-Aero
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: And you thought flash was only good for youtube.
Date: 29 Nov 2009 11:45:56
Message: <4b12a544$1@news.povray.org>
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Invisible wrote:
> From what I've seen, the W3C standards are _mostly_ reasonable,
It would be mostly reasonable if W3C was actually implementing those things
in their browser. A "mostly reasonable" standard can come out of a throughly
broken standards process, and vice versa.
> the ad-hoc made-up stuff that browser implementors come up with is a
> nightmare.
In part because W3C has a broken standards process that fails to account for
how the world actually works.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
much longer being almost empty than almost full.
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: And you thought flash was only good for youtube.
Date: 29 Nov 2009 11:52:53
Message: <4b12a6e5$1@news.povray.org>
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Patrick Elliott wrote:
> I think Darren is forgetting the insane mess
Not at all. I'm pointing out that the W3C has a broken standards process,
not that what they come up with is bad, but that it isn't *standard*.
> that IE
> created "before" MS decided that actually following universal standards
> was a good idea,
But they're not universal standards. For example, IE will only store 20
cookies per site. That's because that was the Mozilla standard. When W3C
comes along and says "store more", and major business' web sites don't work
with those "standard" browsers because W3C changed the universal standard to
something "better" and then brow-beat all the others into following those
standards, people blame IE for not getting with the program.
You can't constantly change standards that you expect a whole raft of people
to implement and expect good results, no matter the quality of those standards.
> standards that are, to the best ability of the other
> browser makers, ***not*** based on their own loose and random standards,
> but one W3C standards.
Bzzzt.
> The *real* problem isn't that they make up odd standards, its that they
> provide a few limited test pages to attempt to render, to match
> compliance with "some" features, but they have no actual system to show
> "how" the features are supposed to really interact to *get* that result.
But that's exactly the problem with "making up standards". The broken
standards process *is* the *cause* of what you describe.
If you said "nothing becomes an official web standard until three browsers
implement it identically", you by definition wouldn't have this problem.
When's the last time you said "My ftp server won't talk to your FTP client"?
Why? Because there were several interoperative implementations *before* it
was a standard. Sure, sometimes you get a mess like email address parsing,
but that's the price you pay for interoperability.
The web really isn't mature enough to depend on all the cutting-edge
pixel-perfect features that people want to use effortlessly. If it was, you
wouldn't have a bunch of competing browsers constantly in the news, as they
would all be commodities.
> In that respect, I agree there is a nasty mess.
It's no worse a mess than lots of other things. It's just that IETF has been
doing it much longer and figured out the right way to make it work.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Human nature dictates that toothpaste tubes spend
much longer being almost empty than almost full.
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