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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 12:33:15
Message: <4a9bfb4b$1@news.povray.org>
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scott wrote:
>>> Assuming it was completely for free (ie you didn't make them sign or
>>> agree to some specific license) then I hope you can't sue them.
>>
>> I don't have to agree to any license at all to obtain GPL software. It
>> is completely free for me to obtain it.
>
> Then you should be free to distribute it further without worrying.
Hey, welcome to copyright!
> How
> is distributing it further any different from distributing the link if
> it is completely free to download?
Because you don't own the copyright.
>>> If you want to control your work, don't release it for free to the
>>> public.
>>
>> I guess you lose your copyright if you give your book to the library
>> to loan out?
>
> If you put limitless free copies of your book in the library
Oh, now we're up to "limitless"?
> I don't think you would have much
> claim to people making further copies of it when it is freely available
> anyway.
OK, I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree. I'm talking about
how the situation works right now, and you're talking about how you think it
ought to work.
> Exactly what have you lost, as the author, by people making
> their own copies when you are giving away your copies for free?
The copyright. The right to prevent other people from making copies without
your permission.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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Darren New schrieb:
> I don't have to agree to any license at all to obtain GPL software. It
> is completely free for me to obtain it.
You may be completely free to /obtain/ it, but if you also want to /use/
it (for anything other than wasting hard disk space), then you have to
agree to the GPL - the "GNU Public License".
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 14:06:49
Message: <4a9c1139$1@news.povray.org>
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clipka wrote:
> Darren New schrieb:
>> I don't have to agree to any license at all to obtain GPL software. It
>> is completely free for me to obtain it.
>
> You may be completely free to /obtain/ it, but if you also want to /use/
> it (for anything other than wasting hard disk space), then you have to
> agree to the GPL - the "GNU Public License".
No you don't.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 17:28:13
Message: <4a9c406d$1@news.povray.org>
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:22:26 +0200, clipka wrote:
> Darren New schrieb:
>> I don't have to agree to any license at all to obtain GPL software. It
>> is completely free for me to obtain it.
>
> You may be completely free to /obtain/ it, but if you also want to /use/
> it (for anything other than wasting hard disk space), then you have to
> agree to the GPL - the "GNU Public License".
Nope:
GPLv3, section 9, states:
"You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run a
copy of the Program."
Jim
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 17:40:33
Message: <4a9c4351@news.povray.org>
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> "You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run a
> copy of the Program."
In part because that's how copyright works. You can't really impose
restrictions on someone via copyright, other than basically not copying.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 17:54:44
Message: <4a9c46a4@news.povray.org>
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:40:30 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> "You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run
>> a copy of the Program."
>
> In part because that's how copyright works. You can't really impose
> restrictions on someone via copyright, other than basically not copying.
Yep; that's why a lot of software companies moved to using a license
agreement instead. In some localities, though, they treat the license
agreement as nothing more than copyright; I understand in Germany, a
software company cannot impose restrictions on the use of software
(including how you may or may not resell it or whether - IIRC - you can
reverse-engineer it).
Jim
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 19:02:34
Message: <4a9c568a$1@news.povray.org>
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> I understand in Germany, a
> software company cannot impose restrictions on the use of software
> (including how you may or may not resell it or whether - IIRC - you can
> reverse-engineer it).
In the USA before the DMCA, a license couldn't prevent you from doing things
allowed by fair use. Particularly because copyright law is federal and
license law is state-level.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 22:23:13
Message: <4a9c8591$1@news.povray.org>
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:02:31 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I understand in Germany, a
>> software company cannot impose restrictions on the use of software
>> (including how you may or may not resell it or whether - IIRC - you can
>> reverse-engineer it).
>
> In the USA before the DMCA, a license couldn't prevent you from doing
> things allowed by fair use. Particularly because copyright law is
> federal and license law is state-level.
Yep, I remember that from an earlier discussion. :-)
Jim
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Jim Henderson schrieb:
> "You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run a
> copy of the Program."
Ah okay... another point I obviously didn't read properly...
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> The copyright. The right to prevent other people from making copies
> without your permission.
All I'm saying is that I don't see how you can keep that right when your
work is freely available in the first place. And I mean completely freely
available, no signing anything, no agreeing to terms, no having to give your
address, no joining a waiting list etc.
If it went to court in such a situation, how would the judge decide how much
money the author had lost by this "unlawful" copying of the work?
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