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From: scott
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 12:08:12
Message: <4a9bf56c@news.povray.org>
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>> Assuming it was completely for free (ie you didn't make them sign or
>> agree to some specific license) then I hope you can't sue them.
>
> I don't have to agree to any license at all to obtain GPL software. It is
> completely free for me to obtain it.
Then you should be free to distribute it further without worrying. How is
distributing it further any different from distributing the link if it is
completely free to download?
>> If you want to control your work, don't release it for free to the
>> public.
>
> I guess you lose your copyright if you give your book to the library to
> loan out?
If you put limitless free copies of your book in the library and nobody had
to sign up for anything then yes, I don't think you would have much claim to
people making further copies of it when it is freely available anyway.
Exactly what have you lost, as the author, by people making their own copies
when you are giving away your copies for free?
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 12:33:15
Message: <4a9bfb4b$1@news.povray.org>
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scott wrote:
>>> Assuming it was completely for free (ie you didn't make them sign or
>>> agree to some specific license) then I hope you can't sue them.
>>
>> I don't have to agree to any license at all to obtain GPL software. It
>> is completely free for me to obtain it.
>
> Then you should be free to distribute it further without worrying.
Hey, welcome to copyright!
> How
> is distributing it further any different from distributing the link if
> it is completely free to download?
Because you don't own the copyright.
>>> If you want to control your work, don't release it for free to the
>>> public.
>>
>> I guess you lose your copyright if you give your book to the library
>> to loan out?
>
> If you put limitless free copies of your book in the library
Oh, now we're up to "limitless"?
> I don't think you would have much
> claim to people making further copies of it when it is freely available
> anyway.
OK, I think we're going to just have to agree to disagree. I'm talking about
how the situation works right now, and you're talking about how you think it
ought to work.
> Exactly what have you lost, as the author, by people making
> their own copies when you are giving away your copies for free?
The copyright. The right to prevent other people from making copies without
your permission.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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Darren New schrieb:
> I don't have to agree to any license at all to obtain GPL software. It
> is completely free for me to obtain it.
You may be completely free to /obtain/ it, but if you also want to /use/
it (for anything other than wasting hard disk space), then you have to
agree to the GPL - the "GNU Public License".
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 14:06:49
Message: <4a9c1139$1@news.povray.org>
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clipka wrote:
> Darren New schrieb:
>> I don't have to agree to any license at all to obtain GPL software. It
>> is completely free for me to obtain it.
>
> You may be completely free to /obtain/ it, but if you also want to /use/
> it (for anything other than wasting hard disk space), then you have to
> agree to the GPL - the "GNU Public License".
No you don't.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 17:28:13
Message: <4a9c406d$1@news.povray.org>
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:22:26 +0200, clipka wrote:
> Darren New schrieb:
>> I don't have to agree to any license at all to obtain GPL software. It
>> is completely free for me to obtain it.
>
> You may be completely free to /obtain/ it, but if you also want to /use/
> it (for anything other than wasting hard disk space), then you have to
> agree to the GPL - the "GNU Public License".
Nope:
GPLv3, section 9, states:
"You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run a
copy of the Program."
Jim
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 17:40:33
Message: <4a9c4351@news.povray.org>
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> "You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run a
> copy of the Program."
In part because that's how copyright works. You can't really impose
restrictions on someone via copyright, other than basically not copying.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 17:54:44
Message: <4a9c46a4@news.povray.org>
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:40:30 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> "You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run
>> a copy of the Program."
>
> In part because that's how copyright works. You can't really impose
> restrictions on someone via copyright, other than basically not copying.
Yep; that's why a lot of software companies moved to using a license
agreement instead. In some localities, though, they treat the license
agreement as nothing more than copyright; I understand in Germany, a
software company cannot impose restrictions on the use of software
(including how you may or may not resell it or whether - IIRC - you can
reverse-engineer it).
Jim
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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 19:02:34
Message: <4a9c568a$1@news.povray.org>
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> I understand in Germany, a
> software company cannot impose restrictions on the use of software
> (including how you may or may not resell it or whether - IIRC - you can
> reverse-engineer it).
In the USA before the DMCA, a license couldn't prevent you from doing things
allowed by fair use. Particularly because copyright law is federal and
license law is state-level.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
Understanding the structure of the universe
via religion is like understanding the
structure of computers via Tron.
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Reflecting (and bent) torus on checkered plane
Date: 31 Aug 2009 22:23:13
Message: <4a9c8591$1@news.povray.org>
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:02:31 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> I understand in Germany, a
>> software company cannot impose restrictions on the use of software
>> (including how you may or may not resell it or whether - IIRC - you can
>> reverse-engineer it).
>
> In the USA before the DMCA, a license couldn't prevent you from doing
> things allowed by fair use. Particularly because copyright law is
> federal and license law is state-level.
Yep, I remember that from an earlier discussion. :-)
Jim
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Jim Henderson schrieb:
> "You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run a
> copy of the Program."
Ah okay... another point I obviously didn't read properly...
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