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scott wrote:
>> A normal IT guy working for an international company would presumably
>
> And would presumably be meant to be working for almost 100% of the time,
> and not moaning whenever he actually had to do some real IT work :-)
And where in this thread have I complained about having to do IT work?
I complained about Acrobat not performing its intended function. I
complained about Live Meeting not working properly. I complained about
having to deal with people who can't speak English and can't work
computers. But I don't recall at any point complaining because I had to
do something other than just surfing the net.
>> I would also *hope* that such a person wouldn't be considered utterly
>> incompetent every single time any kind of minor technical glitch occurs.
>
> Surely you've demonstrated how you can solve all the minor technical
> glitches though? Surely not everyone in your company is that dumb that
> they all think you're totally incompetent?
Are you kidding?
If somebody decides to move a PC from one place to another and they drop
it on their foot, that's *my* fault. I should make the PCs less heavy.
And have rounded corners.
If it takes 20 minutes to download a file, that's *my* fault. I should
make the Internet faster. (The minor detail that upgrading our Internet
connection would cost tens of thousands of pounds PER YEAR and I don't
write the cheques is lost on most people...)
Our passwords now have to meet complexity requirements. And that's *my*
fault. (Even though it wasn't my idea, I didn't turn the setting on, and
I couldn't turn it off even if I wanted to.)
If anything computer-related goes wrong, this is by definition *my*
fault. No matter how unreasonable that may be...
> Did you ever try to work pro-actively? I mean by suggesting things to
> your boss that you think you should be doing (in order to improve the
> company's IT), rather than just waiting to be told things to do? It
> might make them think more of you as a valued employee contributing to
> the company rather than "just" an IT worker who fixes stuff when asks.
I gave up trying years ago. Nobody takes the slightest bit of notice
what I say. Everybody seems to assume I just don't know what I'm talking
about. And nobody consults me about anything either. They just *do* it,
and then expect me to be able to work with it.
(Like when we leased that extra room, and Fathead had some contractors
come in and lay a fiber-optic link between the two comms cabinets. We
don't actually *have* any equipment which can interface with
fiber-optics. But hey, who asked me? Fathead just comes to me one day
and says "so all the comms are live in that room now, right?")
>> (That's rhetorical of course. I wouldn't travel to a foreign country
>> if you paid me.)
>
> Well clearly you have travelled to a foreign country, when you actually
> paid yourself to go, albeit for a holiday. Are you really telling me
> that if paid enough you still wouldn't travel abroad to work for a few
> days? How about to go to a conference? OOC why not?
Well, my skiing trip was kind of different. I didn't have to go by
myself, I didn't have to find where I was going, I didn't have to speak
to anybody or pay for anything. Plus the sheer awesomness of the prize
at the other end kind of made up for the misery of travelling and the
being in a hostile environment, etc.
Considering how badly this company treats me, they'd have to pay me A
LOT to make me go through all that only to get walked on by a different
set of people.
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"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> > The trick is, finding a job that you actually enjoy.
>
> Hmm, maybe I don't enjoy my job as much as I think I do, if I am always
> thinking it would be more fun to stay at home and do other stuff.
off but if you really mean always then maybe it is time to look for something
else. Having said that, the world economy and job markets are not at their best
ATM. Sometimes you have to grin and bear it.
Stephen
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> And where in this thread have I complained about having to do IT work?
>
> I complained about Acrobat not performing its intended function. I
> complained about Live Meeting not working properly. I complained about
> having to deal with people who can't speak English and can't work
> computers.
All of those seem like completely normal things that an IT person should
have to handle in the course of their day. Software not working as it
should, dealing with people who can't use computers, having to do "IT
things" for people, all seems reasonable to me.
> If anything computer-related goes wrong, this is by definition *my* fault.
> No matter how unreasonable that may be...
Did you try explaining your thoughts to these people?
> I gave up trying years ago. Nobody takes the slightest bit of notice what
> I say. Everybody seems to assume I just don't know what I'm talking about.
Why do you think that is?
> (Like when we leased that extra room, and Fathead had some contractors
> come in and lay a fiber-optic link between the two comms cabinets. We
> don't actually *have* any equipment which can interface with fiber-optics.
> But hey, who asked me? Fathead just comes to me one day and says "so all
> the comms are live in that room now, right?")
And what happened then after you explained to him the situation? And what
did he reply when you asked him why nobody consulted you first?
> Well, my skiing trip was kind of different. I didn't have to go by myself,
> I didn't have to find where I was going, I didn't have to speak to anybody
> or pay for anything.
On business trips you don't have to pay for anything, and when you get there
either someone will pick you up or just simply tell a taxi driver the
address of your hotel. It's a lot easier and comfortable when you don't
have to consider how to save money continuously while you are travelling.
The other cool thing is that most companies will allow you to take some
holiday either before or after your trip to spend some leisure time wherever
you are going, in some cases this longer stay even makes the plane ticket
cheaper for them, so you can negotiate them to pay for your holiday
accommodation too :-)
But then if you're not interested in the slightest of visiting foreign
countries, then I guess that doesn't appeal to you at all.
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scott wrote:
>> And where in this thread have I complained about having to do IT work?
>>
>> I complained about Acrobat not performing its intended function. I
>> complained about Live Meeting not working properly. I complained about
>> having to deal with people who can't speak English and can't work
>> computers.
>
> All of those seem like completely normal things that an IT person should
> have to handle in the course of their day. Software not working as it
> should, dealing with people who can't use computers, having to do "IT
> things" for people, all seems reasonable to me.
Well, you know, I fix things all the time. I don't usually complain
about them. (Already today, I've fixed 4 seperate problems, and not
complained about any of them.) It just exarsperates me when an extremely
expensive peice of software doesn't provide the features you'd expect it
to. Or when I'm expected to help somebody who doesn't speak English.
>> If anything computer-related goes wrong, this is by definition *my*
>> fault. No matter how unreasonable that may be...
>
> Did you try explaining your thoughts to these people?
Sure. You try explaining these things in a way that doesn't sound like
you're just inventing excuses.
>> I gave up trying years ago. Nobody takes the slightest bit of notice
>> what I say. Everybody seems to assume I just don't know what I'm
>> talking about.
>
> Why do you think that is?
I'm not really sure.
Historically, my boss always thought I was an amazingly smart guy, and
the people across the pond always thought I was an idiot. There was a
lot of friction over that. But hey, he's gone now. It seems the people
at the top of IT are just so sure they know everything there is to know
that anybody else can't possibly know anything. Or something like that.
And our site manager is just a moron.
>> (Like when we leased that extra room, and Fathead had some contractors
>> come in and lay a fiber-optic link between the two comms cabinets. We
>> don't actually *have* any equipment which can interface with
>> fiber-optics. But hey, who asked me? Fathead just comes to me one day
>> and says "so all the comms are live in that room now, right?")
>
> And what happened then after you explained to him the situation? And
> what did he reply when you asked him why nobody consulted you first?
He said "oh" and wandered off.
To this day, that room still isn't live. But then, it seems it's become
a store room anyway, so...
>> Well, my skiing trip was kind of different. I didn't have to go by
>> myself, I didn't have to find where I was going, I didn't have to
>> speak to anybody or pay for anything.
>
> On business trips you don't have to pay for anything, and when you get
> there either someone will pick you up or just simply tell a taxi driver
> the address of your hotel. It's a lot easier and comfortable when you
> don't have to consider how to save money continuously while you are
> travelling.
>
> The other cool thing is that most companies will allow you to take some
> holiday either before or after your trip to spend some leisure time
> wherever you are going, in some cases this longer stay even makes the
> plane ticket cheaper for them, so you can negotiate them to pay for your
> holiday accommodation too :-)
>
> But then if you're not interested in the slightest of visiting foreign
> countries, then I guess that doesn't appeal to you at all.
I've always disliked travelling and being in unfamiliar places. It's
something I sometimes do when there's a very large reward on offer, but
generally I try to avoid it if possible. Certainly the idea of being
stranded all alone in a country where I can't even tell what people are
saying to me is rather intimidating.
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> Or when I'm expected to help somebody who doesn't speak English.
It's a good skill to have, being able to communicate with people who can't
speak English that well. Even though it just seems like common sense that
you need to speak slower and clearer, and try not to use any unusual words
or difficult sentence constructs, it's surprising how many people just don't
get it and carry on talking completely normally when the other person
obviously doesn't have a clue.
> Sure. You try explaining these things in a way that doesn't sound like
> you're just inventing excuses.
Umm, "I agree completely 100% with you, I have proposed it to management
several times, but they said they just don't have the money".
> And our site manager is just a moron.
You said that a lot of people there have PhDs? They can't all be completely
stupid!
>> And what happened then after you explained to him the situation? And what
>> did he reply when you asked him why nobody consulted you first?
>
> He said "oh" and wandered off.
So you asked to meet with him later to discuss what to do with the useless
equipment he just ordered to be installed and how to make sure it doesn't
happen again? Seems to me that's what the IT guy should be doing.
> To this day, that room still isn't live. But then, it seems it's become a
> store room anyway, so...
So what are you planning to do with the stuff in that room? What's the plan
IT guy?
> Certainly the idea of being stranded all alone in a country where I can't
> even tell what people are saying to me is rather intimidating.
"Sorry I don't understand" let's them know the situation, even if they don't
understand English. It also helps to just learn a handful of common words
from the place you are visiting, just things like thanks, please, hello, bye
etc. Also remember that most people are friendly are are happy to see a
foreign person, there's no need to be intimidated. I find it best to always
print out the home page of the place you are staying in the local language,
so that you can just show that to the taxi driver or someone at a train
station etc.
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scott wrote:
> Try
> getting up at 4am, sitting on a plane for 8 hours, then going to a
> customer meeting for 2 hours, then having dinner (in a time zone 6 hours
> behind where you started), then having a 3 hour conference call with
> non-English-speaking people, then going to bed 24 hours after you got
> up, then working 16 hours a day for a week. Want to swap?
>
>
Luxury!! When I was a lad .... &c &c :-D
John
--
"Eppur si muove" - Galileo Galilei
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> Luxury!!
I knew someone was going to say that :-) Remember, there's always someone
worse off than you.
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scott wrote:
>> Or when I'm expected to help somebody who doesn't speak English.
>
> It's a good skill to have, being able to communicate with people who
> can't speak English that well. Even though it just seems like common
> sense that you need to speak slower and clearer, and try not to use any
> unusual words or difficult sentence constructs, it's surprising how many
> people just don't get it and carry on talking completely normally when
> the other person obviously doesn't have a clue.
Well when the line keeps cutting out and the person at the other end is
being hostile towards me, it doesn't make for a fun day, let's put it
that way.
I'm not an interpretter, I'm a computer technition.
>> Sure. You try explaining these things in a way that doesn't sound like
>> you're just inventing excuses.
>
> Umm, "I agree completely 100% with you, I have proposed it to management
> several times, but they said they just don't have the money".
And they walk off muttering "yeah, whatever, we believe you".
>> And our site manager is just a moron.
>
> You said that a lot of people there have PhDs? They can't all be
> completely stupid!
...did I?
Anyway, I'm sure the people in the lab aren't stupid. But our site
manager... is. Nobody likes him. All he does is swagger around in that
arrogant self-important way, and spend all day on Facebook. If you
actually *ask* him something, he hasn't got a clue what you're talking
about. But hey, he's only here because it'll look good on his CV.
>>> And what happened then after you explained to him the situation? And
>>> what did he reply when you asked him why nobody consulted you first?
>>
>> He said "oh" and wandered off.
>
> So you asked to meet with him later to discuss what to do with the
> useless equipment he just ordered to be installed and how to make sure
> it doesn't happen again? Seems to me that's what the IT guy should be
> doing.
Not a case of "just" ordered; this was about a month after they
installed it. (Not that he *told* me or anything. I just "found out"
when I went into the server room one day and an extra patch panel had
appeared. But hey, I'm only the IT guy...) Presumably he just sort of
mumbled "uh... data... uh... connection... thingy?" and the salesman
said "fiber link?" and he said "oh, yeah, that sounds computery, we'll
have six of those". [Why six? WTF?]
>> To this day, that room still isn't live. But then, it seems it's
>> become a store room anyway, so...
>
> So what are you planning to do with the stuff in that room? What's the
> plan IT guy?
The "stuff" consists of a cabinet (which was there when the builders
built the place) and some fibers going into it. I have asked on several
occasions what's going on with this room - the general response being
"uh, dunno". [More like "I don't give a crap"...]
>> Certainly the idea of being stranded all alone in a country where I
>> can't even tell what people are saying to me is rather intimidating.
>
> "Sorry I don't understand" let's them know the situation, even if they
> don't understand English. It also helps to just learn a handful of
> common words from the place you are visiting, just things like thanks,
> please, hello, bye etc. Also remember that most people are friendly are
> are happy to see a foreign person, there's no need to be intimidated. I
> find it best to always print out the home page of the place you are
> staying in the local language, so that you can just show that to the
> taxi driver or someone at a train station etc.
In my experience, approximately nobody is ever happy to see me, for any
reason.
It turns out most Swiss people speak English way better than I will ever
speak French or German. But that doesn't make it much less disorienting
or intimidating. [Face it, I went to *Liverpool* and couldn't understand
people!]
But yeah, if I had to go somewhere by myself, your suggestions are the
sort of thing I'd do.
[My mum actually bought me a little translater gizmo. She's most
offended that I never take it with me. But... well, I asked it to say
something in English, and *I* couldn't tell WTF it was saying. E.g., ask
it to say "hotel" and it says "owa".]
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scott wrote:
>> Luxury!!
>
> I knew someone was going to say that :-) Remember, there's always
> someone worse off than you.
What, no limbless 3rd-world people in this NG?
[No, no there isn't. And you know why? No computers...]
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> I'm not an interpretter, I'm a computer technition.
Sure, but if you need to do a little interpreting to help your main job then
so be it.
> And they walk off muttering "yeah, whatever, we believe you".
So you forward them the email you got from management in reply to your
suggestion. And you email everyone reminding them to log a IT call if they
ever experience an unacceptable delay in the external network so that you
can inform management how severe the problem is, etc - be proactive, let
people see that you are working rather than just hiding away and waiting for
them to come to you.
> All he does is swagger around in that arrogant self-important way, and
> spend all day on Facebook.
Well you're the IT guy - block facebook, and when he complains tell him that
the bandwidth is so limited on your low speed connection that you had to
block non-work sites to allow people to do their jobs more efficiently. Of
course if you had a faster connection these rules could be relaxed a little
:-)
> The "stuff" consists of a cabinet (which was there when the builders built
> the place) and some fibers going into it. I have asked on several
> occasions what's going on with this room - the general response being "uh,
> dunno". [More like "I don't give a crap"...]
Surely the obvious response is then "well who *does* know then?" As the IT
guy it seems pretty reasonable that you need to know why this stuff is
there. Don't stop until you get to the top :-)
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