 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>> Yeah, well, you can't really put that in a CV or an application.
>
> Sure. It goes under the "skills" section. "Self-motivated" or
> "self-started" is usually how it's described in the help-wanted ad.
Sure. Trouble is, *anybody* can say that. Words are cheap. Employers
want some kind of proof - and I don't have any yet.
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:29:29 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
>I don't care how much you pay me, I am NOT working in London.
True you are not working in London ;)
--
Regards
Stephen
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:30:36 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> Yeah, well, you can't really put that in a CV or an application.
>>
>> Sure. It goes under the "skills" section. "Self-motivated" or
>> "self-started" is usually how it's described in the help-wanted ad.
>
> Sure. Trouble is, *anybody* can say that. Words are cheap. Employers
> want some kind of proof - and I don't have any yet.
Sure you do. The projects you've done that show that you've learned this
stuff on your own, combined with a lack of formal education in the areas
in question.
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:29:29 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> I'm puzzled as to how somebody with no formal qualifications gets to
>>> write a book.
>>
>> Well, I said "co-author". My co-author asked me if I was interested
>> because he was impressed with my level of knowledge.
>
> Ah. So it's a question of knowing the right people then.
Sometimes. Not always. I know others who have been published who just
started with an idea and shopped it around to different publishers until
one took the project on. In some cases, it helps to have a manuscript,
in some cases, an outline is sufficient. We started with an outline and
a proposal rather than a manuscript.
But for fiction writers that I know, having a manuscript is generally
considered the norm (so it seems to me).
>>> If there's a box asking what qualifications you have, and another box
>>> asking what commercial experience you have, it's very hard to convey
>>> that you're not just some loser kid who wants a job, and that you
>>> actually know stuff about stuff, even though you don't have the
>>> credentials "on paper" to prove it.
>>
>> The 300 word application box is a foot in the door. It's not the
>> entire interview process. They learn the details after the first step
>> is done.
>
> Not if you're unsufficiently impressive to get an interview.
It's important to choose your words carefully. One of the things about a
limited space to enter that in is you can get an idea (as a prospective
employer) about the ability of the candidate to say a lot with few
words. At the same time, as a prospective employer with a form like
that, you also have to not require a thesis in that space, so it's a
balancing act.
>>>> If you'd expand the scope of your search, that would certainly help.
>>> Such as...?
>>
>> Broader scope of locations for a start. If I limited myself to
>> businesses within a 4 block radius (not saying you are that restricted
>> in your scope, but I live in a larger city), I'd probably have a hard
>> time finding something, too.
>
> Well, I'm currently looking at Wolfram in Oxford. That's about 30 miles
> or something. I'd prefer a job in my home town, but I don't mind
> something slightly further away.
>
> I don't care how much you pay me, I am NOT working in London.
Well, nobody said London. But you also have a strong desire to not
relocate, so that limits you pretty much to what you can drive to from
where you currently are.
You have stated that it would be impossible for you to find a job in
another geographic area because you don't have a place to live there
first. However, consider this: People do this all the time. They go on
job interviews with companies in other countries, other parts of the
country they're in, and on the other side of the planet. Logically, it
must not be impossible to do.
>> Yes, and that's a starting point. Call the number and say you'd like
>> to speak to someone about your submitted application on the
>> Wolfram|Alpha site, and if that person is in that office location,
>> they'll connect you. If they're not, then ask if they have a phone
>> number that you can call for the other office because you'd like to
>> follow up on your application.
>>
>> That shows initiative (and follow-through), and employers like that.
>
> All true in theory. In practice, applying to such a vast company, I
> doubt anybody is going to notice. I also rather suspect most of their HR
> will be in the USA. But it's worth a go I guess...
You'd be surprised. I work for a pretty big company (compared to
Wolfram, certainly; Wolfram reportedly has about 400 employees, at least
in their US headquarters), and things like this do get noticed (I know
because I've referred people for jobs here before). Independent
initiative/self-motivation is a very strongly sought after characteristic
in employees because it means less time having to manage the employee,
which equates to a more productive employee.
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>>> Well, I said "co-author". My co-author asked me if I was interested
>>> because he was impressed with my level of knowledge.
>> Ah. So it's a question of knowing the right people then.
>
> Sometimes. Not always. I know others who have been published who just
> started with an idea and shopped it around to different publishers until
> one took the project on. In some cases, it helps to have a manuscript,
> in some cases, an outline is sufficient. We started with an outline and
> a proposal rather than a manuscript.
>
> But for fiction writers that I know, having a manuscript is generally
> considered the norm (so it seems to me).
Heh. Almost makes it sound like I could just sit here, write some crap
about crap, give it to a publisher and make a stack of money. :-D
I rather doubt it's quite that easy though... ;-)
>>> The 300 word application box is a foot in the door. It's not the
>>> entire interview process. They learn the details after the first step
>>> is done.
>> Not if you're unsufficiently impressive to get an interview.
>
> It's important to choose your words carefully.
That's what I'm getting at, yes.
You can describe your qualifications in a few short abbreviations, and
this puts across what you know. [Stop laughing at the back there!] But
explaining stuff you don't have a little certificate for is much harder.
> One of the things about a
> limited space to enter that in is you can get an idea (as a prospective
> employer) about the ability of the candidate to say a lot with few
> words.
Probably, yes. I tend to whaffle a lot. :-P
>> Well, I'm currently looking at Wolfram in Oxford. That's about 30 miles
>> or something. I'd prefer a job in my home town, but I don't mind
>> something slightly further away.
>>
>> I don't care how much you pay me, I am NOT working in London.
>
> Well, nobody said London. But you also have a strong desire to not
> relocate, so that limits you pretty much to what you can drive to from
> where you currently are.
>
> You have stated that it would be impossible for you to find a job in
> another geographic area because you don't have a place to live there
> first. However, consider this: People do this all the time. They go on
> job interviews with companies in other countries, other parts of the
> country they're in, and on the other side of the planet. Logically, it
> must not be impossible to do.
Like I said, I'm looking at Oxford. I'd prefer not to move to Bristol or
Leeds, but Oxford would probably be OK.
>>> That shows initiative (and follow-through), and employers like that.
>> All true in theory. In practice, applying to such a vast company, I
>> doubt anybody is going to notice. I also rather suspect most of their HR
>> will be in the USA. But it's worth a go I guess...
>
> You'd be surprised. I work for a pretty big company (compared to
> Wolfram, certainly; Wolfram reportedly has about 400 employees, at least
> in their US headquarters), and things like this do get noticed (I know
> because I've referred people for jobs here before). Independent
> initiative/self-motivation is a very strongly sought after characteristic
> in employees because it means less time having to manage the employee,
> which equates to a more productive employee.
Heh, well, depends on the company culture I guess. (And how good their
internal communication is.) Anyway, I'll give it a try at some point...
--
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:02:52 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>> But for fiction writers that I know, having a manuscript is generally
>> considered the norm (so it seems to me).
>
> Heh. Almost makes it sound like I could just sit here, write some crap
> about crap, give it to a publisher and make a stack of money. :-D
>
> I rather doubt it's quite that easy though... ;-)
Have you read some of the crap that gets published? The trick is to be
able to just toss the rejection letters out and move on to the next
publisher until you find one that is willing to publish the crap. :-)
>>>> The 300 word application box is a foot in the door. It's not the
>>>> entire interview process. They learn the details after the first
>>>> step is done.
>>> Not if you're unsufficiently impressive to get an interview.
>>
>> It's important to choose your words carefully.
>
> That's what I'm getting at, yes.
>
> You can describe your qualifications in a few short abbreviations, and
> this puts across what you know. [Stop laughing at the back there!] But
> explaining stuff you don't have a little certificate for is much harder.
Not really. I provided you with one example a couple messages earlier.
Here's something from and old version of my CV:
"Have experience in resolving critical server problems with NetWare 3-6,
having used techniques outlined in various Application Notes issues and
sessions held at BrainShare in 1995."
And another:
"Experienced in the use of protocol analyzers including Novell’s
LANalyzer for Windows, Network Associates’ Sniffer, and Ethereal to
troubleshoot network problems and monitor network performance."
And something that shows a personal drive:
"Operate a lab of my own at home with NetWare 6, 5, and 4 products
installed, as well as cross-platform directory services on Linux and
Windows platforms."
Now, in the education section of my CV, I list:
"EDUCATION
Aerospace Engineering / Aviation Computer Science
1989-1993
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
Daytona Beach, Florida
Activities: Elected Vice-President of the Student Chapter of the
Association for Computing Machinery, and elected to the position of
Student Liaison to the Computer Science Department within the
association. Participated in the 1992 Southeast Regional Programming
Contest held by the ACM."
I didn't earn my degree, but I was there from the fall of 1989 to the
spring of 1993. There's nothing here that even remotely suggests a
formal education in computer networking, protocol analysis, or the like.
>> One of the things about a
>> limited space to enter that in is you can get an idea (as a prospective
>> employer) about the ability of the candidate to say a lot with few
>> words.
>
> Probably, yes. I tend to whaffle a lot. :-P
If you mean you tend to be verbose - I do as well (you can see that from
some of the posts I write here). It takes practice to say things in a
succinct manner, and often takes rewriting. If I'm writing something
that's particularly important, I tend to revise my text a few times
before sending it. I also often will ask someone to read what I've
written to find out if it makes sense to someone other than me.
>> country they're in, and on the other side of the planet. Logically, it
>> must not be impossible to do.
>
> Like I said, I'm looking at Oxford. I'd prefer not to move to Bristol or
> Leeds, but Oxford would probably be OK.
Oh, were you thinking of moving if you got the job in Oxford? If so,
that's a great step forward. :-) But I'm talking about broadening your
search to find something that leverages your skills regardless of
location.
What I would do (in your shoes) is start by saying "what do I want to do"
and then using one of the job search sites (and LinkedIn) to see where
jobs like that are. Then I'd go and look to see what the cost of living
is like, salaries in the area and in that profession are like, and what
it's like to live in the area (for broad definitions of "the area" - if
the job were in, say, San Francisco, I know I would likely not make
enough for a place to live there, so I'd look in the less expensive
suburbs and see if average cost of living matched up with an expected
salary based on available data).
I might even visit the place to see if I like it - if I could afford to
do so. Or look for people I know online who live in the area or have
been there to get some opinions.
I'd be unlikely to do that now because I have family where I am now (not
parents, but wife and stepson), certainly not without consultation of the
others I live with since it would be a family choice. But being young
and single as you are, those considerations aren't things I'd include.
>>>> That shows initiative (and follow-through), and employers like that.
>>> All true in theory. In practice, applying to such a vast company, I
>>> doubt anybody is going to notice. I also rather suspect most of their
>>> HR will be in the USA. But it's worth a go I guess...
>>
>> You'd be surprised. I work for a pretty big company (compared to
>> Wolfram, certainly; Wolfram reportedly has about 400 employees, at
>> least in their US headquarters), and things like this do get noticed (I
>> know because I've referred people for jobs here before). Independent
>> initiative/self-motivation is a very strongly sought after
>> characteristic in employees because it means less time having to manage
>> the employee, which equates to a more productive employee.
>
> Heh, well, depends on the company culture I guess.
I've worked for a few companies, and even the ones I thought were awful
places to work valued not having to babysit employees (which is what
happens when the employee has no initiative). It's a financial decision
- if you have to hire someone to babysit someone else, it costs you money
and detracts from the bottom line.
> (And how good their
> internal communication is.) Anyway, I'll give it a try at some point...
Do. :-)
Jim
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>> Heh. Almost makes it sound like I could just sit here, write some crap
>> about crap, give it to a publisher and make a stack of money. :-D
>>
>> I rather doubt it's quite that easy though... ;-)
>
> Have you read some of the crap that gets published? The trick is to be
> able to just toss the rejection letters out and move on to the next
> publisher until you find one that is willing to publish the crap. :-)
Heh. When I was at uni, we discovered that our Java lecturer had
published a Java book. It was on Amazon, and not one reviewer had
anything good to say about it. ;-) Apparently it was riddled with
spelling and gramatical errors, sentences that didn't make sense,
factual inaccuracies, and example programs that either didn't compile or
didn't work properly. (You could arguably blame some of that on the
rapidly changing Java APIs...)
>> Like I said, I'm looking at Oxford. I'd prefer not to move to Bristol or
>> Leeds, but Oxford would probably be OK.
>
> Oh, were you thinking of moving if you got the job in Oxford? If so,
> that's a great step forward. :-) But I'm talking about broadening your
> search to find something that leverages your skills regardless of
> location.
Yeah, but, finding a job in a reasonable location is a higher priority
than finding a job that's a "perfect" match for my skills. I mean, what
does it matter how good the job is if I have to live in Leeds to get it?
I might as well stay where I am.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 15-6-2009 10:34, Invisible wrote:
>> Oh, were you thinking of moving if you got the job in Oxford? If so,
>> that's a great step forward. :-) But I'm talking about broadening
>> your search to find something that leverages your skills regardless of
>> location.
>
> Yeah, but, finding a job in a reasonable location is a higher priority
> than finding a job that's a "perfect" match for my skills. I mean, what
> does it matter how good the job is if I have to live in Leeds to get it?
> I might as well stay where I am.
Ever heard the phrase 'job satisfaction'?
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
>>> Oh, were you thinking of moving if you got the job in Oxford? If so,
>>> that's a great step forward. :-) But I'm talking about broadening
>>> your search to find something that leverages your skills regardless
>>> of location.
>>
>> Yeah, but, finding a job in a reasonable location is a higher priority
>> than finding a job that's a "perfect" match for my skills. I mean,
>> what does it matter how good the job is if I have to live in Leeds to
>> get it? I might as well stay where I am.
>
> Ever heard the phrase 'job satisfaction'?
I point being, what's the point of having a great job if it means you
have to live somewhere utterly horrid? Priorities...
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 15-6-2009 16:29, Invisible wrote:
>>>> Oh, were you thinking of moving if you got the job in Oxford? If
>>>> so, that's a great step forward. :-) But I'm talking about
>>>> broadening your search to find something that leverages your skills
>>>> regardless of location.
>>>
>>> Yeah, but, finding a job in a reasonable location is a higher
>>> priority than finding a job that's a "perfect" match for my skills. I
>>> mean, what does it matter how good the job is if I have to live in
>>> Leeds to get it? I might as well stay where I am.
>>
>> Ever heard the phrase 'job satisfaction'?
>
> I point being, what's the point of having a great job if it means you
> have to live somewhere utterly horrid? Priorities...
Indeed priorities. I would prefer a good job over a nice place to live.
Mostly you won't have time to enjoy it anyway and during the weekends
you can always go somewhere better. Your priorities seem different.
That said, what about all those great places to live other than MK?
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
