somebody wrote:
> Does that mean a W2K user has free pass to patch the
> XP version to bypass installation/registration?

I think it does, in the USA, yes. You're allowed to make modifications to 
something to get around compatibility problems.

> Likewise, a music vendor may
> only release a track on CD audio. Does that mean others have free pass to
> convert it to MP3 to play on their MP3 players?

I think it does, in the USA, for the same reason as above.

> Shouldn't it be respected nonetheless?

No. First Sale doctrine says that when you buy it, it's yours to do with as 
you like. In particular, you're not allowed to stop me from taking it to a 
different country and selling it for more. The "you're not allowed to buy 
it" is an attempt to get around that right, as is region-code locking.

It's a global market. People have to learn to suck it up.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

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"Nicolas Alvarez" <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message 
news:4a27f221@news.povray.org...
>
> Well, in Argentina CDs cost about three times less than in the US. If 
> iTunes
> music store was opened here with their current US prices, *nobody* would
> buy. If they opened here and adjusted their prices, then they would have 
> to
> take measures to avoid US citizens from setting their country to Argentina
> and pay 3x less. (= get 3x less ripped off than usual)
>

Certainly, it's all about price controls.  But the point is that I would 
have been willing to pay any reasonable price, but it's simply not for sale 
to me, even if I was physically in Japan while trying to download it for 5 
times the price.

Perhaps I should get a VISA gift card, then proclaim that I live in Japan. 
I don't think they could/would try to prove otherwise at that point.

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On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:42:04 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> somebody wrote:
>> Does that mean a W2K user has free pass to patch the XP version to
>> bypass installation/registration?
> 
> I think it does, in the USA, yes. You're allowed to make modifications
> to something to get around compatibility problems.

Are you?  I've not heard that one before, I would think that might open 
the person making the modifications up to being prosecuted under DMCA.

>> Shouldn't it be respected nonetheless?
> 
> No. First Sale doctrine says that when you buy it, it's yours to do with
> as you like. In particular, you're not allowed to stop me from taking it
> to a different country and selling it for more. The "you're not allowed
> to buy it" is an attempt to get around that right, as is region-code
> locking.
> 
> It's a global market. People have to learn to suck it up.

That's why these days we don't "buy" products, we "license" them.  The 
ownership stays with the seller and any use that violates the terms of 
the license voids the license and your right to use the product.

I disagree with this model very strongly.  The laws in Germany prohibit 
this type of license - if you pay for something, you bought it, and the 
vendor can't restrict you from doing things to what you bought.  So I'm 
told by people who live there, anyways.

Jim

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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
news:4a280771@news.povray.org...
> somebody wrote:

> > Does that mean a W2K user has free pass to patch the
> > XP version to bypass installation/registration?

> I think it does, in the USA, yes. You're allowed to make modifications to
> something to get around compatibility problems.

Are you positive of that? How is it a "compatibility problem" if I, as a
vendor, explicitly take measures so it doesn't install or legally register
on a platform and make it known that it doesn't?

By that token of "compatibility problem", (and should it be feasible), I
could take a Mac application, decompile it, and compile it for Windows. I
somehow doubt that's legal.

Post a reply to this message

Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Well, in Argentina CDs cost about three times less than in the US. If iTunes
> music store was opened here with their current US prices, *nobody* would
> buy. If they opened here and adjusted their prices, then they would have to
> take measures to avoid US citizens from setting their country to Argentina
> and pay 3x less. (= get 3x less ripped off than usual)

  Isn't discrimination against customers based on their country of origin
illegal in most places? I think some people call that "racism" (even though
it's not the technically correct term).

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:4a281112$1@news.povray.org...
> On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:42:04 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>
>> somebody wrote:
>>> Does that mean a W2K user has free pass to patch the XP version to
>>> bypass installation/registration?
>>
>> I think it does, in the USA, yes. You're allowed to make modifications
>> to something to get around compatibility problems.
>
> Are you?  I've not heard that one before, I would think that might open
> the person making the modifications up to being prosecuted under DMCA.
>
Yes, and then Yes.  Hence the trouble with the DMCA, and why it may 
ultimately fail if properly challenged.

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On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:48:41 -0400, Jeremy \"UncleHoot\" Praay wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:4a281112$1@news.povray.org...
>> On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:42:04 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>>
>>> somebody wrote:
>>>> Does that mean a W2K user has free pass to patch the XP version to
>>>> bypass installation/registration?
>>>
>>> I think it does, in the USA, yes. You're allowed to make modifications
>>> to something to get around compatibility problems.
>>
>> Are you?  I've not heard that one before, I would think that might open
>> the person making the modifications up to being prosecuted under DMCA.
>>
> Yes, and then Yes.  Hence the trouble with the DMCA, and why it may
> ultimately fail if properly challenged.

I can't wait for that day, but don't want to be the one to challenge it, 
either.  There have been some minor challenges to it IIRC, but nothing 
really overwhelming (ISTR hearing about one challenge about accessibility 
for DRM'ed protected PDFs or something like that).

Jim

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"somebody" <x### [at] ycom> wrote in message news:4a2811d6@news.povray.org...
> "Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message
> news:4a280771@news.povray.org...
>> somebody wrote:
>
>> > Does that mean a W2K user has free pass to patch the
>> > XP version to bypass installation/registration?
>
>> I think it does, in the USA, yes. You're allowed to make modifications to
>> something to get around compatibility problems.
>
> Are you positive of that? How is it a "compatibility problem" if I, as a
> vendor, explicitly take measures so it doesn't install or legally register
> on a platform and make it known that it doesn't?
>
> By that token of "compatibility problem", (and should it be feasible), I
> could take a Mac application, decompile it, and compile it for Windows. I
> somehow doubt that's legal.
>
It's entirely legal (again, DMCA not withstanding).  You will undoubted 
breach the license agreement for nearly every commerical software license, 
however.  Similarly, you could write an emulator that will run all Mac 
software on a PC or vice-versa.

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On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:28:42 -0600, somebody wrote:

> By that token of "compatibility problem", (and should it be feasible), I
> could take a Mac application, decompile it, and compile it for Windows.
> I somehow doubt that's legal.

Depends on the license for the software.  Obviously for GPL'ed software, 
that's not a problem.  You can reverse-engineer it all you want and 
compile it for another platform if you so desire.  It's usually easier to 
just acquire the source, though. ;-)

Jim

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"Jeremy "UncleHoot" Praay" <jer### [at] questsoftwarecmo> wrote in message 
news:4a280be2$1@news.povray.org...
> ...the point is that I would have been willing to pay any reasonable 
> price, but it's simply not for sale to me, even if I was physically in 
> Japan while trying to download it for 5 times the price.

Woops.  I began to suspect that I might be wrong here.  If I was in Japan, 
then I would, in fact, not be able to download songs from the US.  Plus, 
they say that they check your country of origin to make sure that it 
corresponds to your address.  So...  If I happen to be living in Japan for 3 
months, without a permanent address, I would be forbidden from downloading 
anything from any iTunes?  Sigh...

---
Terms of Sale
JAPAN SALES ONLY

Purchases from the iTunes Store are available to you only in Japan and are 
not available in any other location. You agree not to use or attempt to use 
the service from outside of the available territory. iTunes may use 
technologies to verify such compliance.

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