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nemesis wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> nemesis wrote:
>>> He set out to make a movie about super-heroes. He had to draw some
>>> references. How about the plot of one of the most acclaimed comic
>>> books in the genre?
>>
>> In generics, "good guy scoffs at secret admirer, and winds up having
>> to defeat admirer's plan to get revenge" is pretty standard fare.
>
> Yes, and yet despite being this generic, it's not the plot of Watchmen,
> only Incredibles.
So, clearly, the plot of Incredibles wasn't inspired by the plot of
Watchmen. Quid pro quo epsom cephalopod. ;-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
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Darren New wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> but the simple idea that the plot is similar to that of Watchmen isn't
>> allowed
>
> But that isn't what you claimed. You claimed it was an inspiration.
I reworked it as just a brief list of plot points shared by both works
under the Critics section. Deleted. More to the point, I never saw an
idea being deleted on the Discussion page. Never, despite some heavy
flamewars.
It's simply not allowed. Not that I care anymore.
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sat, 16 May 2009 16:37:37 -0300, nemesis wrote:
>
>> I don't know how else to state it.
>
> Then don't. It's unnecessary, and calling a group of people "a bunch of
> nazis" doesn't exactly ingratiate you to them (or to others you're
> trying to convince).
Funny. I only mentioned it here because I seem to recall similar
anti-wikipedian moderators discussions here before. Nevermind.
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From: Fredrik Eriksson
Subject: Re: Watchmen vs The Incredibles
Date: 16 May 2009 18:33:36
Message: <op.ut1nmafo7bxctx@e6600>
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On Sun, 17 May 2009 00:15:04 +0200, nemesis
<nam### [at] nospam-gmail com> wrote:
> Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 May 2009 21:34:53 +0200, nemesis
>> <nam### [at] nospam-gmailcom> wrote:
>>>
>>> There are no outlawed heroes nor huge squids in either Batman
>> Read 'The Dark Knight Returns'.
>
> Yes, I read it at the time it was released, though I was only an
> adolescent and possibly did not get all references. I just reread it
> now just to be sure: no outlawed heroes, only retired heroes.
The government forbids heroes from appearing in public and punishes them
quite severely if they disobey. They are effectively outlawed, even if the
law is not in writing.
> No huge squid terrorizing a city either.
>
>>> or the Bible.
>> Read the New Testament.
>
> Sorry, I don't see it. In particular, this is a discussion about
> super-heroes from american XX century comics and I don't see the
> relevance of that here.
You were talking about outlawed heroes. In the bible, Jesus was a hero. A
superhero really. He was most certainly outlawed, and even sentenced to
death.
If you insist on limiting the discussion to comic books you may wish to
read this:
http://www.amazon.com/Eye-Witness-Fictional-Absolute-Truth/dp/0975892401?s=books&qid=1242512645
--
FE
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Darren New wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> Darren New wrote:
>>> nemesis wrote:
>>>> He set out to make a movie about super-heroes. He had to draw some
>>>> references. How about the plot of one of the most acclaimed comic
>>>> books in the genre?
>>>
>>> In generics, "good guy scoffs at secret admirer, and winds up having
>>> to defeat admirer's plan to get revenge" is pretty standard fare.
>>
>> Yes, and yet despite being this generic, it's not the plot of
>> Watchmen, only Incredibles.
>
> So, clearly, the plot of Incredibles wasn't inspired by the plot of
> Watchmen. Quid pro quo epsom cephalopod. ;-)
Yes. And West Side Story is not inspired by Romeo and Juliet either
because of the myriad of small different details...
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well, just did some basic "brad bird watchmen" googling:
http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Interviews/Bird/Bird_Interview.htm
He's directly confronted with both the Fantastic Four and Watchmen
references. And dismisses them by saying he's more of a "Peanuts" guy
than a "Whoeverman" guy.
The maximum he goes is to acknowledge he's heard of Watchmen before and
is glad that The Incredibles is compared with something that good. He
mentions the super-heroes retirement, but that's all. No mention to the
"no cape", secret Island or huge squid attack on a city.
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nemesis wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 May 2009 16:37:37 -0300, nemesis wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know how else to state it.
>>
>> Then don't. It's unnecessary, and calling a group of people "a bunch
>> of nazis" doesn't exactly ingratiate you to them (or to others you're
>> trying to convince).
>
> Funny. I only mentioned it here because I seem to recall similar
> anti-wikipedian moderators discussions here before. Nevermind.
Anti-wikipedians can hate each other, too. We're equal opportunity
antists.
--
Misspelled? Impossible. My modem is error correcting.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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nemesis wrote:
> well, just did some basic "brad bird watchmen" googling:
>
> http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Interviews/Bird/Bird_Interview.htm
>
> He's directly confronted with both the Fantastic Four and Watchmen
> references. And dismisses them by saying he's more of a "Peanuts" guy
> than a "Whoeverman" guy.
>
> The maximum he goes is to acknowledge he's heard of Watchmen before and
> is glad that The Incredibles is compared with something that good. He
> mentions the super-heroes retirement, but that's all. No mention to the
> "no cape", secret Island or huge squid attack on a city.
What we have here is a clear case of convergent evolution. With enough
individual plot elements available and enough movies using the same pool
of elements, eventually someone is *going* to, completely at random with
no prior exposure to the other work, choose elements that are similar
enough to it to suggest inspiration.
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.freesitespace.net
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nemesis wrote:
> He set out to make a movie about super-heroes. He had to draw some
> references.
Sure he had to, but can you prove that he referenced Watchmen?
When Brad Bird himself denies it, then you're left with two stories that
have similarities. NOT one story based on another.
Believe it or not, coincidences DO happen. Given the public zeitgeist,
the idea of a "fallen hero" has been popular for quite some time, and
nostalgia is always a seller. It's no wonder that somebody made a movie
about retired superheroes, whether or not the person who made it has
seen or read Watchmen.
--
Chambers
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nemesis wrote:
> Yes. And West Side Story is not inspired by Romeo and Juliet either
> because of the myriad of small different details...
Except that, there, the author admitted having written it to make Romeo
and Juliet more accessible to modern audiences.
Here, Brad Bird denies that Watchmen was an inspiration.
--
Chambers
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