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Darren New escreveu:
> nemesis wrote:
>> True, that excellent use for the batch tools. That's also not typical
>> source code editing.
>
> Not in your life, maybe. :-)
Now, come on, man! Are you really saying you're one of those legendary
*nix real programmers writing code with cat, then editing with ed, sed
and awk pipes?
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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Mueen Nawaz escreveu:
> Mike Raiford wrote:
>> I've used VI for a semester in a college computer science course.
>>
>> I learned to hate it.
>
> My hatred for it didn't require any learning.<G>
Then I guess you have no right for it. ;)
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:22:35 -0500, Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> The ^C and ^V ones are actually from Apple.
I seem to remember that they come from Wordstar - ^KC for copy and ^KV
for paste IIRC.
Jim
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Darren New wrote:
> The backspace key *should* send ASCII backspace. But since Emacs broke
> that, they decided to make it send something else, rather than fixing
> emacs.
What about EBCDIC backspace (0x16)?
--
~Mike
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nemesis wrote:
> Mike Raiford escreveu:
>> nemesis wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, Professor Foo probably goes like: "Now type vi file and here
>>> are some basic commands for you. Have fun!" Surely wasn't a vi
>>> class and it just got in the way of the tasks. You surely had no
>>> time to learn it while you were fighting against it to get your
>>> assignments done...
>>
>> That's exactly how it happened :)
>
> And poor vi has nothing to do with it, really. :)
>
>>> And I remember you're the guy who backed down from my text-copying
>>> challenge in this thread. ;)
>>
>> ... I think I missed something here. What challenge was that?
>
> Copy a really big block of text with a mouse and then try y} on vim for
> the same task. ;)
>
> Here's another: open up some big source file, randomly place the cursor
> somewhere inside, then search for the next call of the nearest function
> being called (supposing it's not being called in the next line sure).
> Copy the next block of text following the function call, then go back to
> where you were and paste it. Pretty routine source code editing.
>
> In vim it can be done in a automated way, barely looking at what's being
> done: * j 0 y} 2Ctrl+o o Esc p
>
> * over the function name to search for the next occurrence of name
> j to go to next line
> 0 to go to beginning of line
> y} to yank/copy the statements block following the call
> 2Ctrl-o to go back 2 times in the jump stack (search and copy add to it)
> o to add a line below the line where you were in the first place
> Esc to get out of insert mode
> p to place the copy
>
> It may sound completely alien, but is completely intuitive once you
> learn the basics. Needless to say, I'd be done with it before the mouse
> guy would still be positioning his cursor beyond the last statement to
> copy and before using page-ups like mad to reach his original location
> -- even if he was smart to bookmark it before... :P
>
Hmmm Let see .. (This is visual studio, so YMMV)
Ctrl-F3 (Find next occurrence)
Down Arrow
Home
Ctrl-I } <enter>
Ctrl-=
Ctrl-c
3xCtrl--
Down Arrow
Enter
Ctrl-v
A few more keystrokes, but comparable.
--
~Mike
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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:22:35 -0500, Mueen Nawaz wrote:
>
>> The ^C and ^V ones are actually from Apple.
>
> I seem to remember that they come from Wordstar - ^KC for copy and ^KV
> for paste IIRC.
Here's what Wikipedia says (and doesn't say it definitively...):
Apple Computer widely popularized the computer-based cut-and-paste
paradigm through the Lisa (1981) and Macintosh (1984) operating systems
and applications. Apple mapped the functionalities to key-combinations
consisting of a special modifier key held down while typing the letters
X (for cut), C (for copy), and V (for paste), choosing a handful of
keyboard sequences to control basic editing operations. The keys
involved all cluster together at the left end of the bottom row of the
standard QWERTY keyboard, and each key is combined with a control or
special modifier key to perform the desired operation:
* Z to undo
* X to cut
* C to copy
* V to paste
CUA (for OS/2) also uses combinations of the Insert, Del, Shift and
Control keys. Early versions of Windows used the IBM standard. Microsoft
later adopted similar key-combinations with the introduction of Windows.
--
"The security of the Enterprise is of Paramount importance.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawaz org<<<<<<
anl
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Mike Raiford escreveu:
> nemesis wrote:
>> Here's another: open up some big source file, randomly place the
>> cursor somewhere inside, then search for the next call of the nearest
>> function being called (supposing it's not being called in the next
>> line sure). Copy the next block of text following the function call,
>> then go back to where you were and paste it. Pretty routine source
>> code editing.
>>
>> In vim it can be done in a automated way, barely looking at what's
>> being done: * j 0 y} 2Ctrl+o o Esc p
>>
>> * over the function name to search for the next occurrence of name
>> j to go to next line
>> 0 to go to beginning of line
>> y} to yank/copy the statements block following the call
>> 2Ctrl-o to go back 2 times in the jump stack (search and copy add to it)
>> o to add a line below the line where you were in the first place
>> Esc to get out of insert mode
>> p to place the copy
>>
>> It may sound completely alien, but is completely intuitive once you
>> learn the basics. Needless to say, I'd be done with it before the
>> mouse guy would still be positioning his cursor beyond the last
>> statement to copy and before using page-ups like mad to reach his
>> original location -- even if he was smart to bookmark it before... :P
>>
>
> Hmmm Let see .. (This is visual studio, so YMMV)
>
> Ctrl-F3 (Find next occurrence)
> Down Arrow
> Home
> Ctrl-I } <enter>
> Ctrl-=
> Ctrl-c
> 3xCtrl--
> Down Arrow
> Enter
> Ctrl-v
>
> A few more keystrokes, but comparable.
I see you chose to ditch the mouse, which the original challenge was
about. Good for you anyway! :)
BTW, 2Ctrl+o is just that: press 2, press Ctrl+o. ;) No need to press
it 2 or 3 times... May not sound much for short repetitions where indeed
repressing the same key may be faster, but for numerous repetitious it
can be very worth it, like yy10p to copy the current line and paste it
10 times bellow.
As far as I know, VS has emacs keyboard shortcuts emulation, so it
surely must have similar editings capabilities. I know I had set up it
once to do the wonderful copy buffer cycling. I also know Netbeans has
keyboard shortcuts resembling vi. Not really surprising coming from
Bill Joy's Sun Microsystems.
Anyway, someone suggested mouse would make emacs (and vim by extension)
obsolete, but this is clearly dull as the mouse is an imprecise analogic
tool which simply can't compare to the ease of discrete and concise
commands typed as keyboard shortcuts...
I rest my case. :)
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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nemesis wrote:
>
> Anyway, someone suggested mouse would make emacs (and vim by extension)
> obsolete, but this is clearly dull as the mouse is an imprecise analogic
> tool which simply can't compare to the ease of discrete and concise
> commands typed as keyboard shortcuts...
Yeah... no. I still use a lot of keyboard shortcuts. When using
Photoshop, for example, I usually have the tablet's stylus in my right
hand, and my left hand over the keyboard. I rarely do any "mousing" with
the stylus. Everything that needs to be done usually has a keyboard
shortcut. :)
> I rest my case. :)
>
Yep. But it was the quickest way I could think of. Granted I do scroll
through a lot with the mouse, or use the drop-down lists to navigate to
a specific function within a class. I'm also the type that tends to use
regular expressions to change things en masse.
But here it is with the mouse involved...:
^F3
In the left column, mouse down, drag until you see the first } Mouse Up
^C
^- x2
^V
--
~Mike
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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:14:30 -0500, Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> and doesn't say it definitively..
That's the part I'm having trouble with. ISTR that WordStar predated
Apple, and I'm pretty sure that those control codes (the ^K prefixed
ones) were correct in WordStar.
Jim
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On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:58:32 -0400, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:14:30 -0500, Mueen Nawaz wrote:
>
>> and doesn't say it definitively..
>
> That's the part I'm having trouble with. ISTR that WordStar predated
> Apple, and I'm pretty sure that those control codes (the ^K prefixed
> ones) were correct in WordStar.
Found a reference that confirms my memory - ^KV was "move" not "paste",
but otherwise I recall pretty much correctly.
http://www.glinx.com/~grifwood/WSCOMSUM.PDF
WordStar was first developed for CP/M in 1978; Apple was founded in 1976
(incorporated in 1977), so they may have beaten Wordstar to the punch
there, though the bit you cited said it was popularlized in 1981 with the
Lisa, so it's possible that they were following a modified version of
WordStar's choices or they came up with them independently.
Jim
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