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Warp wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospam com> wrote:
>> I find vi to be completely intuitive.
>
> You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "intuitive".
>
> Intuitive means that its basic operations can be used by someone who
> has never used the program before.
>
> Intuitive does not mean that you find it easy to use after having years
> of experience.
>
Vi is more intuitive. p to paste instead of something silly like Ctrl-V.
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nemesis wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> It would seem notepad is as "intuitive" (with arrow keys, mouse clicks
>> to position the cursor, etc) as any other Windows program, while neither
>> emacs nor vi can be driven at all without learning how to run them.
>
> 20-years vi hacker comes in touch with notepad for the first time:
> iWhat the crap is this thing?
> :wq
> iCrap! How do I kill this process??!!
> ZZ
> :q!!!
I once found myself pressing Esc a lot on POV-Win.
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triple_r wrote:
> Like my email messages, "Here's the file, do you think you could printf
> this out
> for me?" I wish I could say I've only done that once.
I mistype "myself" as "mysqlf" quite often. I notice when I'm about to press
the 'f' :)
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Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> Vi is more intuitive. p to paste instead of something silly like Ctrl-V.
When I press the 'p' key, for some odd reason my intuitive expectation
is for the letter 'p' to appear at the cursor's position, but that might
be just me.
--
- Warp
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Darren New wrote:
>
> What character sequence do you think the backspace key *should* send?
>
Why, the OEM keycode for the backspace key, of course ... Duh!
--
~Mike
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Darren New wrote:
> What character sequence do you think the backspace key *should* send?
See the link I posted?
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Warp wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> Vi is more intuitive. p to paste instead of something silly like Ctrl-V.
>
> When I press the 'p' key, for some odd reason my intuitive expectation
> is for the letter 'p' to appear at the cursor's position, but that might
> be just me.
And that's what Vim does, when you're in insert mode. In normal mode, it
pastes.
Hey, when you press 'p' on Windows while a menu is open, what does it do?
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Warp wrote:
> When I press the 'p' key, for some odd reason my intuitive expectation
> is for the letter 'p' to appear at the cursor's position, but that might
> be just me.
No. Too easy.
I've used VI for a semester in a college computer science course.
I learned to hate it.
BTW, where did the combinations Ctrl-Ins(Copy), Shift-Del(Cut) and
Shift-Ins(Paste) come from? I remember them from the DOS text editors
for QuickBASIC and such...
--
~Mike
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Darren New escreveu:
> nemesis wrote:
>> Darren New escreveu:
>>> nemesis wrote:
>>>> Batch editing with pipes and sed has no place in today's fast-paced
>>>> interactive programming.
>>>
>>> Heh heh heh.
>>
>> Is that a sed programmer laugh? :)
>
> No. That's from someone who just went thru 250+ directories, found all
> the files with the string SDL or sdl in the file name, directory name,
> or inside the files, and duplicated it to another file, directory, or
> #ifdef section within the file, as appropriate.
>
> Do that interactively? I'd still be at it.
True, that excellent use for the batch tools. That's also not typical
source code editing.
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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Jim Henderson escreveu:
>>> People doing change-on-the-fly editing using pipes might say that it's
>>> noobs who use crutches like vim or emacs.
>> Batch editing with pipes and sed has no place in today's fast-paced
>> interactive programming.
>
> Oh, I don't know about that. I had to process a couple hundred e-mail
> messages, generate PDFs of the contents, and re-send them to myself.
> Easiest way was to export the messages to a text file and run them
> through a few awk scripts - using pipes. Fed the results into another
> awk script that mailed the stuff back to me.
That's scripting useful tasks, but I probably got the wording ambiguous
enough so many people replied about the same as you. Sure scripting is
useful programming, but by "interactive programming" I meant using
proper interactive editing tools to *edit program source code*, not awk,
sed, ed and pipes cause that surely is insane.
>> I don't think so. The day I can select and copy one long SQL select
>> query with a mouse just as easily as y} or go back after a search to the
>> exact point I was 700 lines above with Ctrl+o is the day I'll eat my
>> underwear. :)
>
> There again, you're framing it in terms of your experience. I'm talking
> about from someone else's POV. That's much harder to judge for most
> people because they're not used to standing in someone else's shoes and
> saying that the other POV might have a point.
It's not from my experience at all, not hard to judge for other people.
I mean, surely being able to select and copy a whole block of text with
y} is just as easy and straightforward to me as is to Joe Sixpack who've
never seen vim before but whom I've just showed how to do it so he can
benefit?
Moving the mouse to start point, then scanning down the text with the
both eyes and hands for end point and pressing shift as you click it
then copying involves 3 time-consuming analogic and imprecise steps that
simply don't appear when you just want to say "copy block", which is
what y} just means. Before the guy even gets to the mouse, I'm done
already with copying that 100-lines block of text.
Joe Sixpack can do that too, if only he learns the basics. There's no
way otherwise with mouse-based solutions... plus, after you copy the
text with the mouse, the cursor is left away from the original position.
Not in vim.
> Oh, I don't think so - he's quite adept with the tools he uses, both on
> Windows and on Linux. Just because he doesn't do things the way you and
> I do doesn't mean he's missing out - he might say the same about us
> because we are "stuck in our old ways of doing things". ;-)
Ok, kid, now just turn away before your uncle gets back. ;)
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
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