Warp wrote:
>   Never having used vi, it's just almost impossible to use for anything.

The commands are definitely unintuitive. The modal interface is hard to 
understand if you don't know about it.

> I once was forced to use it because there just was no other text editor
> in that system and I just had to edit a file, and it was next to impossible.

It ain't notepad. :-)

> vi doesn't work like a regular text editor, ie. you start it with a file,
> edit the file (by moving the cursor and writing text), then exit the file
> (which offers you the option of saving the file). 

This is actually how it works, except that inserting text is a command 
rather than the default mode.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Altho in this case, I usually prefer VI, because it's lower bandwidth and
> you can work effectively with very delayed feedback.

Along with gnu screen, it makes a pretty powerful combo for ssh work.  If you
leave things running at work and if you really feel like it, you can reattach
from anywhere and pick up where you left off.

 - Ricky

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:17:58 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Warp wrote:
>>   Never having used vi, it's just almost impossible to use for
>>   anything.
> 
> The commands are definitely unintuitive. The modal interface is hard to
> understand if you don't know about it.

I find vi to be completely intuitive.

:/s/find/replace/g = globally replace "find" with "replace"

:q

Quit

:q!

Forced quit

:w

Write

:w!

Forced write

Etc....

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:13:40 -0400, triple_r wrote:

> Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
>> Altho in this case, I usually prefer VI, because it's lower bandwidth
>> and you can work effectively with very delayed feedback.
> 
> Along with gnu screen, it makes a pretty powerful combo for ssh work. 
> If you leave things running at work and if you really feel like it, you
> can reattach from anywhere and pick up where you left off.
> 
>  - Ricky

Screen is one of my favourite CLI tools. :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:17:58 -0700, Darren New wrote:
> 
>> Warp wrote:
>>>   Never having used vi, it's just almost impossible to use for
>>>   anything.
>> The commands are definitely unintuitive. The modal interface is hard to
>> understand if you don't know about it.
> 
> I find vi to be completely intuitive.
> 
> :/s/find/replace/g = globally replace "find" with "replace"
> 
> :q
> 
> Quit
> 
> :q!
> 
> Forced quit
> 
> :w
> 
> Write
> 
> :w!
> 
> Forced write

completely intuitive for a seasoned ed user. ;)

You know what is not intuitive either?  A Boeing user interface.  Yet, 
it'll get you farther and faster than your intuitive bicycle. :)

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:23:46 -0300, nemesis wrote:

>> Forced write
> 
> completely intuitive for a seasoned ed user. ;)

Intuitive once you've learned it. ;-)

> You know what is not intuitive either?  A Boeing user interface.  Yet,
> it'll get you farther and faster than your intuitive bicycle. :)

True, but sometimes a bicycle is all you need, you don't need a 747 to 
take you to the corner market. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> > Darren New escreveu:
> >> My favorite is how emacs brings up the help screen when you hit 
> >> backspace. I'm pretty sure the defined meaning of backspace predates 
> >> emacs. :-)
> > 
> > I may be a little rusty at emacs but I don't really remember that.

> Backspace is C-h, yes? C-h is "help".  Gets me every time.

  That depends on your console settings, actually.

  If you run emacs on X, the backspace key will be bound to the backspace
keycode and it will be distinct from C-h.

  When I run emacs on Konsole (with DISPLAY disabled), the backspace key
is bound to the 'del' keycode rather than C-h.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> > vi doesn't work like a regular text editor, ie. you start it with a file,
> > edit the file (by moving the cursor and writing text), then exit the file
> > (which offers you the option of saving the file). 

> This is actually how it works, except that inserting text is a command 
> rather than the default mode.

  Both you and Jim are *deliberately* "misunderstanding" what I'm saying
above.

  No, it's *not* how it works.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> I find vi to be completely intuitive.

  You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "intuitive".

  Intuitive means that its basic operations can be used by someone who
has never used the program before.

  Intuitive does not mean that you find it easy to use after having years
of experience.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 04:41:03 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> I find vi to be completely intuitive.
> 
>   You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "intuitive".

I believe I do have a pretty solid grasp of the English language, Warp.  
We've had this discussion before.

>   Intuitive means that its basic operations can be used by someone who
> has never used the program before.
> 
>   Intuitive does not mean that you find it easy to use after having
>   years
> of experience.

--- snip ---

intuitive (___________), a. (and n.)
[ad. med.L. intuit_v-us, f. intuitus intuition; cf. F. intuitif, -ive.]
A. adj.
† 1. a. Beholding, seeing. Obs.
† b. Of sight or vision: That consists in direct and immediate looking 
upon an object, and sees it as it is. Obs.
† 2. Said esp. of the kind of ‘vision’ or immediate perception ascribed 
to angelic and spiritual beings. (See intuition 4.) Obs. (or merged in 3).
3. a. Of knowledge or mental perception: That consists in immediate 
apprehension, without the intervention of any reasoning process.
b. Of a truth: Apprehended immediately or by intuition.
c. Of any faculty or gift: Not acquired by learning; innate.
4. Of the mind or reason, or a mental act or process: That acts by 
intuition or immediate apprehension; opposed to discursive.
5. Of persons: Possessing intuition.
6. Of or pertaining to the school of moral philosophy that holds the 
first principles of ethics to be apprehended immediately or by intuition.
7. Obvious to the senses; directly visible. rare.
B. n. One who works by intuition.

--- snip ---

Now, when I use vi, I don't have to think about the specific commands to 
save a file, exit the editor, insert new text, etc.  ie, 3.a., "immediate 
apprehension, without the intervention of any reasoning process."

Knowing that pressing ":" is arguably a learned thing, but "w" for write, 
"q" for quit, "i" to insert text, "a" to add text - that is pretty 
intuitive.

Jim

Post a reply to this message