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29 Sep 2024 06:25:20 EDT (-0400)
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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Emacs
Date: 15 Apr 2009 13:17:19
Message: <49e6169f$1@news.povray.org>
>>> Control-u 10 Control-f
>>
>> So, hold control, tap U, release control, tap 1 and then 0, hold 
>> control, tap F, and then release control?
> 
> You sound like you never used keyboard shortcuts before.

I don't use them extensively, but some of them are seriously useful to 
know. (And almost all of them are things like Ctrl+S, which is two 
fingers. I haven't seen these multiple-key "shortcuts" before...)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Emacs
Date: 15 Apr 2009 13:17:56
Message: <49e616c4$1@news.povray.org>
>> whoa!  You're... an experienced man. :)
> 
> 
> I'll sell you some :)

...experience? Hot wax??

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Emacs
Date: 15 Apr 2009 13:21:46
Message: <49e617aa@news.povray.org>
nemesis wrote:
> Anti-aliasing means blur.  No AA means crisp. ;)

OMG, you can *not* say things like that, in the POV-Ray forums of all 
places! :-P

As you [I hope] know, AA means adding _extra information_ to the image. 
It is not merely a bluring step (which _removes_ information).

>>>> I mean, if you're forced to use a console window to do something, then
>>>> fair enough. But this is 2009. We have graphics systems capable of
>>>> better. Why not make use of that fact?
> 
> XEmacs took that route of embracing GUIs and their lifestyle.  It means 
> there's tons of buttons and tons of menus inside menus without end. GUIs 
> work when you have limited software like notepad.  When you have tons of 
> features like Emacs and IDEs, all those buttons begin to get in the 
> way.  Ever looked into Eclipse?

>> No sensible person programs with a word processor. It's the wrong tool. 
> 
> Yet I've seen coworkers typing SQL in Word.  Yes, it's insane and 
> depressing.

I've done that before - but not to *execute* it, you understand, but 
because I was writing documentation. For that, a word processor is the 
correct tool. (And Word constantly complains about things that are spelt 
wrong and tries to "correct" letter case, etc.)

>> But there are studies that show that black-on-white is easier to read 
>> than white-on-black, and I'd prefer to be able to change it.
> 
> I enjoy cyan-on-black more. :)

Each to their own. ;-)

> Small baby steps on the manual over a few months can do wonders.  Over 
> the years and you get a new Emacs guru. :)

I get the feeling it might take years to make Emacs work just the way 
you want it to.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Emacs
Date: 15 Apr 2009 13:47:22
Message: <49e61daa@news.povray.org>
Tim Attwood escreveu:
>>> emacs is a religion.  Notepad isn't.
> I've been using Notepad++ lately, it seems OK.
> It has context highlighting for a bunch of languages.
> http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm
> 
> Didn't mice and pull-down menus make Emacs obsolete?

Right.  Here's a challenge for you, copy the query below with your mouse 
and paste it below.  Then compare with the ease of doing the same with 
y}}p on vim.

y} copies (yanks) the following block of text, doesn't matter the size. 
  } goes one block of text below, then p pastes the copy just after the 
cursor.  No, I don't remember how exactly to do it on emacs, but hardly 
different that much and just as easy.

True, mouse ease of use ends when advanced usage begins. :)

BTW, if I want to go back to where I was before the copying, I just do 
Ctrl+o to pop up one position from the jump stack.  What do you do? 
scroll back like crazy??! mwahahahaha....


SELECT
   a.seq_aposentadoria,
   a.cod_matricula,
   a.dt_vigencia,
   a.dt_fim_apo,
   a.ind_motivo_fim_apo,
   d1.desc_estado desc_motivo_fim_apo,
   a.num_processo,
   a.ind_tipo_desconto_pss,
   d2.desc_estado desc_tipo_desconto_pss,
   a.dt_inspecao_medica,
   a.desc_observacao,
   a.dt_lancamento,
   -- Cargo Comissionado
   acc.seq_cargo_comissionado_apo,
   acc.seq_cod_cargo seq_cod_cargo_comissionado,
   acc.cod_categoria	cod_categoria_comissionado,
   acc.dt_nomeacao dt_nomeacao_comissionado,
   acc.seq_func_averbada,
   acc.dt_vigencia dt_vigencia_comissionado,
   acc.ind_opcao_apos ind_opcao_apos,
   d3.desc_estado desc_opcao_apos,
   -- cargo efetivo
   ace.seq_cargo_efetivo_apo,
   ace.seq_cod_cargo seq_cod_cargo_efetivo,
   ace.cod_categoria cod_categoria_efetivo,
   ace.dt_nomeacao dt_nomeacao_efetivo,
   ace.dt_vigencia dt_vigencia_efetivo,
   -- imposto de renda
   air.seq_imposto_renda_apo,
   air.ind_paga_ir,
   d4.desc_estado desc_paga_ir,
   air.dt_vigencia dt_vigencia_ir,
   -- tipo
   atp.seq_tipo_apo,
   atp.ind_tipo_apo,
   d5.desc_estado desc_tipo_apo,
   atp.dt_vigencia dt_vigencia_tipo,
   -- situacao
   ast.seq_situacao_apo,
   ast.ind_situacao_apo,
   d6.desc_estado desc_situacao_apo,
   ast.dt_julgamento_tcu,
   ast.dt_vigencia dt_vigencia_situacao,
   -- paridade
   ap.seq_paridade_apo,
   ap.ind_tipo_paridade_apo,
   d7.desc_estado desc_tipo_paridade_apo,
   ap.dt_vigencia dt_vigencia_paridade,
   -- proporcao
   app.seq_proporcao_apo,
   app.num_fracao_numerador,
   app.num_fracao_denominador,
   app.ind_tipo_pagamento_apo,
   d8.desc_estado desc_tipo_pagamento_apo,
   app.dt_vigencia dt_vigencia_proporcao,
   -- valor aposentadoria
   av.seq_valor_apo,
   --av.seq_indice_reajuste,
   av.vlr_aposentadoria,
   av.desc_observacao desc_observacao_valor,
   av.dt_vigencia dt_vigencia_valor,
   -- dobro limite
   ad.seq_dobro_limite_rgps_apo,
   ad.dt_inicio_vigencia,
   ad.dt_fim_vigencia
FROM dbo.aposentadoria a LEFT OUTER JOIN dbo.dominio d1
   ON (d1.nome_coluna = 'ind_motivo_fim_apo'
     AND d1.desc_codigo = a.ind_motivo_fim_apo) LEFT OUTER JOIN 
dbo.dominio d2
   ON (d2.nome_coluna = 'ind_tipo_desconto_pss'
     AND d2.desc_codigo = a.ind_tipo_desconto_pss) LEFT OUTER JOIN 
dbo.apo_cargo_comissionado acc
   ON (acc.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
     AND acc.dt_vigencia = (SELECT MAX(t.dt_vigencia)
                            FROM dbo.apo_cargo_comissionado t
                            WHERE t.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
						   AND   t.dt_vigencia BETWEEN @dt_ini AND @dt_fim)) LEFT OUTER 
JOIN dbo.dominio d3
   ON (d3.nome_coluna = 'ind_opcao_apos'
     AND d3.desc_codigo = acc.ind_opcao_apos) LEFT OUTER JOIN 
dbo.apo_cargo_efetivo ace
   ON ( ace.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
     AND ace.dt_vigencia = (SELECT MAX(t.dt_vigencia)
	                         FROM dbo.apo_cargo_efetivo t
                            WHERE t.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
						   AND   t.dt_vigencia BETWEEN @dt_ini AND @dt_fim)) INNER JOIN 
dbo.apo_imposto_renda air
   ON (air.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
     AND	air.dt_vigencia = (SELECT MAX( t.dt_vigencia )
	                         FROM dbo.apo_imposto_renda t
                            WHERE t.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
						   AND   t.dt_vigencia BETWEEN @dt_ini AND @dt_fim)) INNER JOIN 
dbo.dominio d4
   ON (d4.nome_coluna = 'ind_paga_ir'
     AND d4.desc_codigo = air.ind_paga_ir) INNER JOIN dbo.apo_tipo atp
   ON (atp.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
     AND	atp.dt_vigencia = (SELECT MAX(t.dt_vigencia)
                            FROM dbo.apo_tipo t
                            WHERE t.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
						   AND   t.dt_vigencia BETWEEN @dt_ini AND @dt_fim)) INNER JOIN 
dbo.dominio d5
   ON (d5.nome_coluna = 'ind_tipo_apo'
AND d5.desc_codigo = atp.ind_tipo_apo) INNER JOIN dbo.apo_situacao ast
   ON (ast.seq_aposentadoria  = a.seq_aposentadoria
     AND ast.dt_vigencia = (SELECT MAX(t.dt_vigencia)
                            FROM dbo.apo_situacao t
                            WHERE t.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
						   AND   t.dt_vigencia BETWEEN @dt_ini AND @dt_fim)) INNER JOIN 
dbo.dominio d6
   ON (d6.nome_coluna = 'ind_situacao_apo'
     AND d6.desc_codigo = ast.ind_situacao_apo) INNER JOIN 
dbo.apo_paridade ap
   ON (ap.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
     AND	ap.dt_vigencia = (SELECT MAX(t.dt_vigencia)
		                      FROM dbo.apo_paridade t
                           WHERE t.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
						  AND   t.dt_vigencia BETWEEN @dt_ini AND @dt_fim)) LEFT OUTER 
JOIN dbo.dominio d7
   ON (d7.nome_coluna = 'ind_tipo_paridade_apo'
     AND d7.desc_codigo = ap.ind_tipo_paridade_apo) INNER JOIN 
dbo.apo_proporcao app
   ON (app.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
     AND	app.dt_vigencia = (SELECT MAX(t.dt_vigencia)
                            FROM dbo.apo_proporcao t
                            WHERE t.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
						   AND   t.dt_vigencia BETWEEN @dt_ini AND @dt_fim)) INNER JOIN 
dbo.dominio d8
   ON (d8.nome_coluna = 'ind_tipo_pagamento_apo'
     AND d8.desc_codigo = app.ind_tipo_pagamento_apo) LEFT JOIN 
dbo.apo_valor av
   ON (av.seq_paridade_apo = ap.seq_paridade_apo
     AND av.dt_vigencia = (SELECT MAX(t.dt_vigencia)
                           FROM dbo.apo_valor t
                           WHERE t.seq_paridade_apo = ap.seq_paridade_apo
						  AND   t.dt_vigencia BETWEEN @dt_ini AND @dt_fim)) LEFT JOIN 
dbo.apo_dobro_limite_rgps ad
   ON (ad.seq_aposentadoria = a.seq_aposentadoria
     AND ad.dt_inicio_vigencia = (SELECT MAX(t.dt_inicio_vigencia)
                                    FROM dbo.apo_dobro_limite_rgps t
                                    WHERE t.seq_aposentadoria = 
a.seq_aposentadoria
								   AND   t.dt_inicio_vigencia BETWEEN @dt_ini AND @dt_fim))


-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Emacs
Date: 15 Apr 2009 13:54:52
Message: <49e61f6c$1@news.povray.org>
Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
>>>>     Eh? No! You don't have to dig into source code for Emacs to 
>>>> customize it. It comes with a Lisp interpreter for a reason!
>>>
>>> You do if you want to make it do something there isn't a setting for.
>>
>> Like a new garbage collector?  Pretty much only the core elisp 
>> interpreter and basic IO routines are in C, the rest of emacs is elisp.
> 
> I doubt anybody ever needs to dig into the C code. But if you want a new 
> Emacs feature that there isn't a setting for, you're going to need to 
> dig through a few hundred miles of Lisp to figure out how and where to 
> add it. That's what I'm trying to say.
> 

Not that difficult:  you start by analyzing a function and asks help for 
that function.  As you dig in the code you see it calling other 
functions and again you ask help for those functions that may interest 
you and so on.  Small baby steps.  Digging the whole emacs manual at 
once is insane.  You search for particular features and goes from there.

Reminded me of a joke:
How do you take elephant soup?  One spoon after the other... :)

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9


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From: nemesis
Subject: Re: Emacs
Date: 15 Apr 2009 13:56:16
Message: <49e61fc0$1@news.povray.org>
Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
> nemesis wrote:
> 
>> I don't think Andrew bothers with that stuff.  He's just having some 
>> bashing fun and when it's over he'll turn back to his underpowered 
>> editor and lose hours upon hours of his life doing something by hand 
>> that exist as a few key presses in either emacs or vim.  Of course 
>> losing 30 minutes of his life to actually learn the precious basics of 
>> a powerful editor is not worth it.
> 
> One could make similar sarcastic remarks about the population at large 
> refusing to learn Haskell even though it is clearly and obviously the 
> most powerful programming language ever devised. Not that such remarks 
> are going to change anybody's minds...

Yes, but it clearly changed yours, didn't it? ;)

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9


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From: triple r
Subject: Re: Emacs
Date: 15 Apr 2009 14:35:00
Message: <web.49e6279ebe8f6db9805d39df0@news.povray.org>
Tor Olav Kristensen <tor### [at] TOBEREMOVEDgmailcom> wrote:
> If you do the following keystrokes:
>
> C-home        // beginning-of-buffer
> down          // next-line
> C-k           // kill-line
> C-y           // yank
> down          // next-line
> C-x (         // start-kbd-macro
> down          // next-line
> C-e           // move-end-of-line
> C-y           // yank
> C-x )         // kmacro-end-macro
> C-u           // universal-argument
> 9             // 9
> C-x e         // kmacro-end-and-call-macro

Yes, yes, I know that no one cares about vim...

:2y
:4,$s/$/^R"^H/

but I'm having fun with this.

 - Ricky


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Emacs
Date: 15 Apr 2009 14:42:46
Message: <2kacu4dpq0f7e1stcgg6ip88ptstshkmb6@4ax.com>
On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:17:22 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

> I haven't seen these multiple-key "shortcuts" before...)

Ctrl + Alt + Del ?
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: Emacs
Date: 15 Apr 2009 14:43:55
Message: <umacu4trskekdpotibc8m7qoj73tssrq2l@4ax.com>
On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:17:58 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>>> whoa!  You're... an experienced man. :)
>> 
>> 
>> I'll sell you some :)
>
>...experience? Hot wax??

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it ;-)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Orchid XP v8
Subject: Re: Emacs
Date: 15 Apr 2009 14:48:23
Message: <49e62bf7$1@news.povray.org>
Stephen wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:17:22 +0100, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> 
>> I haven't seen these multiple-key "shortcuts" before...)
> 
> Ctrl + Alt + Del ?

Yes. You press them all at once.

The only place I've seen where a single "shotcut" involves pressing and 
releasing multiple keys in a sequence is those magic ALT-code that are 
supposed to insert special characters but never actually work right.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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