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moppel wrote:
> Linux... Been there, done that. I used to be such a Linux freak. Until I got a
> job. Time became precious, and I didn't feel like configuring my system and
> reading Howtos for days and weeks just to get things running. Linux is nice for
> building servers for free, but as a desktop system, it sucked penguin balls. And
> I'm pretty sure it'll be like that forever.
> Cheers,
> Burkhard
>
>
That's pretty much the same reason I don't run Windows at home :).
-Aero
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moppel wrote:
>
> You're right, that's a couple of years ago. It was even before Ubuntu. However,
> I'm actually happy with Vista. Never had trouble with it.
Then I really think you should stick with Vista. It's not that some
system would be perfection and above all others, but they fit to
different uses and different users.
> The one thing I still
> miss is Linux' shell scripting capabilities.
http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/
http://cygwin.com/
IMO 2 must-haves on Windows-box, at least makes my work a lot easier.
> Cheers,
> Burkhard
-Aero
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moppel wrote:
> miss is Linux' shell scripting capabilities.
Windows scripting host.
Or PowerShell, which just hit Windows Update last week. I hear good things
about it.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
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Eero Ahonen <aer### [at] removethis zbxtnetinvalid> wrote:
> moppel wrote:
> >
> > You're right, that's a couple of years ago. It was even before Ubuntu. However,
> > I'm actually happy with Vista. Never had trouble with it.
> Then I really think you should stick with Vista. It's not that some
> system would be perfection and above all others, but they fit to
> different uses and different users.
I find it a bit unselttling how people talk about the two OSes like
they were completely equivalent choices. You either choose one or the
other (or both), like it was just like that.
People seem to be forgetting one important difference: Windows is a
commercial product, and not even a cheap one. It costs a fair amount of
money. It's definitely *not* a completely equal choice whether you use
Windows or Linux. If you prefer Windows, you'll have to handle a significant
amount of money to get it. (I assume that moppel is using a legit version
of Windows. I can't even begin to express my utter contempt at the hypocrisy
of people who dare to hype some software they are using illegally, without
paying its authors the money they deserve.)
Not only that, but every new version of Windows has to be bought at full
price (and, as far as I can remember, each new version has been way more
expensive than the previous version). Microsoft (as well as most software
companies) drops support for old versions of their OSes eventually, so if
you want to stick to Windows and get security updates etc, you will be forced
to pay them the money from time to time. This is especially so now that MS
is urging their next version of Windows sooner than anyone expected.
And it's not only the monetary price you are paying. By using Windows
you are submitting to whatever Microsoft wishes to put in their user
license agreement. For example, Microsoft has not *yet* added strict
DRM restrictions to Windows, but they still have it planned for the
near future. You *will* be forced to submit to the draconian DRM system
if you want to keep your Windows up-to-date to the latest security patches
etc. You will have no choice. (Well, you have a choice: Never update Windows
again, leaving you open to any security holes discovered in the future.)
And DRM is certainly not the only draconian measurement Microsoft has
imposed, and will impose, on its users.
Linux, being free, and being developer by its users, has a rather different
philosophy. Linux does not drive the interests of companies nor proprietary
technology. Linux drives the interests of its creators: The users themselves.
It just doesn't make sense to impose any draconian limits in Linux, and thus
you don't need to worry about them.
And of couse with Linux you don't have to pay some company a large amount
of money each other year to keep your system up-to-date.
> > The one thing I still
> > miss is Linux' shell scripting capabilities.
> http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/
> http://cygwin.com/
> IMO 2 must-haves on Windows-box, at least makes my work a lot easier.
OTOH, no matter what you do, you will never get the same level of
integration between the system and those tools as in Linux.
moppel complained about the hassle of always configuring Linux, while
Windows is easy. Rather ironically, once I have had my system running,
I feel the exact opposite: Almost any time I need something new, it's
often a couple of clicks away in Linux, while in Windows it can be a real
hassle, sometimes so much that it's way too much work for me to bother.
Example: If I need, let's say, the gtkgl development libraries for
some program I making, and they are not in my system, I don't have to
think. I launch "install software", enter "gtkgl" in the search box,
choose the gtkgl-devel package and click "ok". That's it. The libraries
have been installed and I can use them. I don't know where they have been
installed nor do I actually care. It just works.
I only wish these things were that easy in Windows.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> Linux drives the interests of its creators: The users themselves.
And the problem with this philosophy is when you're a user and not a
creator. Then you're kind of stuck with whatever a bunch of nerds think is
easy. :-)
> OTOH, no matter what you do, you will never get the same level of
> integration between the system and those tools as in Linux.
No, but there are Windows shells that are very well integrated.
> I only wish these things were that easy in Windows.
If it were, it wouldn't be commercial. :-)
[Note I'm not actually disagreeing with anything you said.]
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > Linux drives the interests of its creators: The users themselves.
> And the problem with this philosophy is when you're a user and not a
> creator. Then you're kind of stuck with whatever a bunch of nerds think is
> easy. :-)
At least draconian DRM measures are not shoved down your throat because
some multi-billion corporations demand it.
Even if linux implemented some kind of DRM, you would still have the choice.
I don't believe you will have any choice in Windows.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> At least draconian DRM measures are not shoved down your throat because
> some multi-billion corporations demand it.
True, but not quite what we were talking about.
> Even if linux implemented some kind of DRM, you would still have the choice.
Actually, Linux folks seem to be the most astute at breaking DRM. :-)
> I don't believe you will have any choice in Windows.
Sure I do. It's open source. It's not like it's harder to break the DRM off
a DVD in Windows than on Linux, yes? Or any other already-broken DRM?
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!
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On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 00:23:31 -0400, clipka wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> Maybe you should try a distro that's been developed and released in the
>> last 5 years.
>
> I'm pretty sure someone experienced with tinkering around with Linux
> sees these things differently, and possibly even rightly so.
>
> But what I've seen so far, with a modern distro (Debian Etch... well,
> Lenny is out now, but I guess Etch will still qualify as modern), is
> that it has improved somewhat, but switching from Windows to Linux is
> probably still a full-time job...
Nope, not at all. Depends on what you do, of course, but no, it's not a
full-time job.
>> Yeah, Vista is a dream.....if you like nightmares.
>
> .... and so is probably switching from Windows XP to Windows Vista, for
> that matter.
I've got a coworker who gave me her Vista PC and specifically asked that
Linux be installed on it. She's in her late 50's and had enough of Vista.
>> Comparatively, on my openSUSE 11.0 boxes, I drop to a console and
>> enter:
>>
>> zypper up -t package
>>
>> And the system is *current*.
>
> Well, that's probably true for all the open source software coming with
> it, but suppose you have a few commercial apps? I bet they won't respond
> to "zypper up -t package". (And does "zypper up -t package" pull the
> latest POV beta? I bet neither ;))
It would if there was a repository for povray and I was subscribed to
it. ;-)
> BTW, in XP, to get the OS *itself* up to date, I don't even hit a few
> keys to start it. I just klick an "accept" button when it starts
> automatically.
<shudder> I never use automatic updates, not even on Linux boxes. I
prefer to know what's being installed and in control of when it's being
installed.
Jim
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On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 01:36:49 -0400, moppel wrote:
> Now I'm using Windows exclusively, and I don't regret it.
Well, I've always said that it's generally more important to find
something that works for you and use that - but that doesn't mean that
you have to slag off other systems.
Don't think I've seen you around here before, come to that - so as a
first post (or apparent first post), kinda rubbed me the wrong way. We
get enough of that over on the openSUSE forums - so apologies if I seem
to have "overreacted". :-)
Jim
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On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 12:52:54 -0400, Warp wrote:
> moppel complained about the hassle of always configuring Linux, while
> Windows is easy. Rather ironically, once I have had my system running, I
> feel the exact opposite: Almost any time I need something new, it's
> often a couple of clicks away in Linux, while in Windows it can be a
> real hassle, sometimes so much that it's way too much work for me to
> bother.
Same here. :-)
Jim
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