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Warp wrote:
> One trend in gaming which seems to be becoming popular is to try to make
> the games as immersive as possible.
>
> First-person shooters are pictured from the point of view of the
> character itself, but still the vast majority of FPS games fail to be
> *really* immersive, like you *really* were there, rather than feeling
> that you are simply watching the TV.
Yeah, I definitely get that.
On the other hand... it's pretty hard to devise a game that's really,
truly immersive. Part of the problem is that today we have real-looking
humans like Alyx Vance, but they still don't behave in a particularly
real way yet. [Because simulating the human brain, or even some vast
simplification of it, is still a theoretical research project, not a
real-world possibility.]
Actually, just the other day I was playing CSS (yes, I realise that's
pretty ancient by now) and I was struck by just how stupid the
computer-controlled players are:
- On one hand, a bot runs along a belcony, jumps down in front of where
I'm hiding, instantly notices me hidden in the corner and kills me with
a single shot to the head. Very few humans could ever do that. On the
other hand, that's because bots don't "see" the way a human does. They
*know* exactly where you are, and have random time delays and random
mis-aim factors added in.
- The bots have absurd difficulty navigating obsticles. I watched one
bot spend 150 seconds trying to get past a pillar in the middle of the
room. A single step either to the left or the right would have instantly
solved the problem, and yet the bot stood there, his face half burried
in the wall, jumping up and down and trying to shoot the wall out of the
way.
- The bots have a ludicrous lack of tactical awareness:
+ Oh no! There's an enemy shooting me! Let me just stand still in
front of him while I casually reload...
+ Oh no! All my teamates at bomsite B have just died, and now the
bomb has been planted! Well, I've been stood at bomsite A since the
start of the round, and I haven't seen or heard a thing, but I guess I
should spent a few minutes checking that the bomb isn't here. Rather
than, say, run to the other bombsite in time to actually defuse the bomb...
+ Oh no! All my teamates are dead! I should continue sitting here
guarding this empty alleyway. Rather than, say, go attempt to complete
the objective or something before the timelimit runs out...
+ My personal favourit: The whole team gets mowed down in one corner
of the map. The one remaining bot in the team goes "where could they be?"
It strikes me that an ant typically has no problem navigating around
obsticles. I wonder how big an ant's brain is? Or how good its eyesight
is, for that matter. I don't know if this is just because CSS sucks
(it's quite old now) or whether people still haven't figured out a way
to fix this kind of thing.
Actually, to be honest, I have no clue how you even implement something
like a bot for an FPS in the first place. The CSS bots are better than
anything *I* could implement! o_O
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"Invisible" <voi### [at] dev null> wrote in message
news:497dd513$1@news.povray.org...
> (Hey hey, I'm probably gonna try Crysis in a little while... heh.)
Are you going to install the patches first?
~Steve~
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Invisible wrote:
> you to run around, flicking the occasional switch,
That was the other thing. The keys to progress were all different. It wasn't
like Quake, for example, where you're running around looking for *keys*, or
Doom3 which (as far as I can see from what I know of it) you get thru doors
by finding PDAs and passwords and such. You had mortar rounds, fan buttons,
jet engines, train gates, etc etc etc you had to figure out, and they all
made sense.
> The physics feature was also pretty neat - and, AFAIK, brand new in
> gaming at that time. (Of course, today seemingly *all* games in this
> class feature it.)
Even Thief3, except they don't use it for anything, as far as I've found. :-)
> Also, I wonder: Will games ever reach the stage where textures are
> sufficiently high resolution that you can actually read the writing on
> stuff??
In games where it matters, yes. The Myst series, for example, has all kinds
of clues in books (being a story about magical books, you see), so you have
to be able to read them.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Invisible wrote:
> Actually, to be honest, I have no clue how you even implement something
> like a bot for an FPS in the first place. The CSS bots are better than
> anything *I* could implement! o_O
Damn, you had to include that paragraph... Just as I was about to reply "go
make your own then".
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Invisible wrote:
> Well, I played Quake II from beginning to end. Not easy when you don't
> have a 3D card! (I wonder - are modern games even *playable* without
> one?) And then I played it all again on a machine that had 3D
> acceleration.
>
> The next game I played was Halflife. Now, I don't know what other games
> existed at the time, but compared to Quake II, Halflife was a hell of a
> lot different.
How big were either of those games? Try this one, 96 kilobytes. You'll take
less than an hour to beat it though :)
http://www.theprodukkt.com/kkrieger
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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> How big were either of those games? Try this one, 96 kilobytes.
I was thinking about that. If you start comparing a 64K program on a
Commodore 64 to a 64K program on Windows with DirectX 10 installed, you get
entirely different kinds of programs. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
"Ouch ouch ouch!"
"What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
"No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."
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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> > How big were either of those games? Try this one, 96 kilobytes.
> I was thinking about that. If you start comparing a 64K program on a
> Commodore 64 to a 64K program on Windows with DirectX 10 installed, you get
> entirely different kinds of programs. :-)
The 96 kB is slightly less impressive when you think that it's using
a humongous multimedia library installed in all Windows systems (namely
DirectX).
I wonder how much larger the program would become if it had to draw
everything in software...
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> The 96 kB is slightly less impressive when you think that it's using
> a humongous multimedia library installed in all Windows systems (namely
> DirectX).
The thing is, many textures would be larger than 96KB by themselves if they
were compressed bitmaps!
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>> Actually, to be honest, I have no clue how you even implement something
>> like a bot for an FPS in the first place. The CSS bots are better than
>> anything *I* could implement! o_O
>
> Damn, you had to include that paragraph... Just as I was about to reply "go
> make your own then".
It's something I'd love to do, except that
1. I have no idea how to program AI.
2. I have no idea how to program in C.
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> It's something I'd love to do, except that
>
> 1. I have no idea how to program AI.
Learn how to then, plenty of info on the web, or get a book.
> 2. I have no idea how to program in C.
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