scott wrote:
> Well go read some books or tutorials then, it's not hard. 

w3schools.com has very good free tutorials on lots of stuff. Just right to 
get you started thru to the point where you can easily start using reference 
documents.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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Invisible wrote:
> Sure, CSS allows you to change colours and add image backgrounds. But 
> this stuff is seriously crazy. I can't even begin to imagine how this is 
> remotely possible...

http://www.sitepoint.com/article/tables-vs-css/

A tutorial on how to do it.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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>> No, I've already learned what matters: I cannot possibly compete with this 
>> level of talent. I should just give up now... :-(
> 
>     Why are you always SO negative?

Well, let's put it this way. I've been using POV-Ray for, what, nearly 
10 years now? And I have yet to draw anything that can compare with the 
designs on that website.

If I can't even produce something as trivial as a single static image 
that looks good, what are the chances of producing a whole catelogue of 
images and integrating them together in a complex mannar to construct an 
intricate website?

Yes, exactly: nil.

>      When I started learning Sandbox 1 and 2 for Farcry and Crysis, I 
> thought I wouldn't be able to do it, but I persevered and produced a map 
> that's now had 1,711 downloads.

Jesus, that's amazing! o_O

I had a go at building levels for Quake II once. It wasn't very 
successful. I mean, I produced working levels, but they were all 
extremely lame. I couldn't find a way of making the level editor produce 
things that weren't just cubes or cylinders... and it was almost 
impossible to edit any small objects like weapons or health packs. The 
interface was just too clumsy.

Still, a while back I had a go at producing levels for HL2. Those didn't 
even *run* correctly...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> If I can't even produce something as trivial as a single static image 
> that looks good, what are the chances of producing a whole catelogue of 
> images and integrating them together in a complex mannar to construct an 
> intricate website?
> 
> Yes, exactly: nil.
> 

Simple answer: Don't be a designer. There's a reason why many companies 
don't let the programmers do the graphics ...



-- 
~Mike

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"Orchid XP v8" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4978b66e$1@news.povray.org...
>>> No, I've already learned what matters: I cannot possibly compete with 
>>> this
>>> level of talent. I should just give up now... :-(
>>
>>     Why are you always SO negative?
>
> Well, let's put it this way. I've been using POV-Ray for, what, nearly
> 10 years now? And I have yet to draw anything that can compare with the
> designs on that website.

     But what was it that you were actually trying to achieve? I learnt very 
early on with PoV that I couldn't handle the translation of objects, so I 
started to model with sPatch, and for me, this was a revelation that I could 
just put an object where I wanted it without having to translate it, (read: 
guess), to where I wanted it. See the attached; (lol at the filename) this 
is a very early (all PoV) image (about 8 years ago I think), and you 
wouldn't believe how long it took me to get those spheres where they are. (I 
can't really remember, but well over an hour!)

     My point is, do you try anything else? At all? And persevere with it?



>
> If I can't even produce something as trivial as a single static image
> that looks good, what are the chances of producing a whole catelogue of
> images and integrating them together in a complex mannar to construct an
> intricate website?
>
> Yes, exactly: nil.

   But how many times do you open your 2D app in a year? How will you learn 
anything if you don't practice?

   It's almost like you 'expect' an app. to do something magical for you so 
you don't have to do the hard work.

     See this guy's work: 
http://www.bertmonroy.com/fineart/text/fineart_damen.htm


>
>>      When I started learning Sandbox 1 and 2 for Farcry and Crysis, I
>> thought I wouldn't be able to do it, but I persevered and produced a map
>> that's now had 1,711 downloads.
>
> Jesus, that's amazing! o_O

     That's a small amount compared to some of the other guys maps, but I'm 
happy with that. :) It's part 1 of 3, but when I actually get to do parts 2 
and 3 is another matter...


>
> I had a go at building levels for Quake II once. It wasn't very
> successful. I mean, I produced working levels, but they were all
> extremely lame. I couldn't find a way of making the level editor produce
> things that weren't just cubes or cylinders... and it was almost
> impossible to edit any small objects like weapons or health packs. The
> interface was just too clumsy.
>
> Still, a while back I had a go at producing levels for HL2. Those didn't
> even *run* correctly...

    Well, I can't comment on those games and engines as I've never 
played/used them, but you have Farcry, so just load up Sandbox 1 (it's on 
the disc) and you'll see what I mean when I said I didn't think I could do 
it.

    ~Steve~


>
> -- 
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Attachments:
Download 'New_File_copy.jpg' (15 KB)

Preview of image 'New_File_copy.jpg'

Mike Raiford wrote:
> Simple answer: Don't be a designer. There's a reason why many companies 
> don't let the programmers do the graphics ...

I see way too many ads for people who are experts in both Photoshop and SQL 
query optimization. Translation: "We only have the budget to hire one person 
to do the work of two."

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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St. wrote:
>    It's almost like you 'expect' an app. to do something magical for you so 
> you don't have to do the hard work.

That's not unusual with really smart people. They're so used to everything 
being quick and easy that when they hit something that's of normal 
difficulty, it seems overwhelming.

>     Well, I can't comment on those games and engines as I've never 
> played/used them, but you have Farcry, so just load up Sandbox 1 (it's on 
> the disc) and you'll see what I mean when I said I didn't think I could do 
> it.

And stay away from Thief's level editor.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:

> w3schools.com has very good free tutorials on lots of stuff. Just right 
> to get you started thru to the point where you can easily start using 
> reference documents.

Really? Well I must be looking at a different website or something... To 
me it just seems to contain lots of short articles which mumble 
something vague about what the technology is supposed to be and what 
it's for, and gives you a quick overview of the most rudimentry syntax, 
and that's it.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New escreveu:
> I see way too many ads for people who are experts in both Photoshop and 
> SQL query optimization. Translation: "We only have the budget to hire 
> one person to do the work of two."

Very true. :)

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>>>     Why are you always SO negative?
>> Well, let's put it this way. I've been using POV-Ray for, what, nearly
>> 10 years now? And I have yet to draw anything that can compare with the
>> designs on that website.
> 
>      But what was it that you were actually trying to achieve?

A website that doesn't look like something from 1996?

>      My point is, do you try anything else? At all? And persevere with it?

What else is there to try?

>    But how many times do you open your 2D app in a year? How will you learn 
> anything if you don't practice?

Practice what? The problem here is that I lack talent.

Other people can pick up a pencil, draw a few brisk strokes on a pad of 
paper, and produce something the like of which I couldn't copy if I had 
several hours to work on it.

Using a computer doesn't really improve matters either. I played with a 
copy of 3D Studio Max - allegedly "the most powerful 3D program ever". 
All I could get it to do was render spheres and cylinders. I've got a 
copy of Photoshop, but I can't make it do anything interesting. Ditto 
for the GIMP. (But then, it's tricky just figuring out how to operate 
that...)

I've spent years fiddling with POV-Ray, and to this day I have yet to 
produce anything high-quality. Everything I make is dull and boring, 
with bad lighting and laughable texturing.

>    It's almost like you 'expect' an app. to do something magical for you so 
> you don't have to do the hard work.

It's more like... I don't have any talent. No tool is going to fix that. 
The problem is that I suck.

>>>      When I started learning Sandbox 1 and 2 for Farcry and Crysis, I
>>> thought I wouldn't be able to do it, but I persevered and produced a map
>>> that's now had 1,711 downloads.
>> Jesus, that's amazing! o_O
> 
>      That's a small amount compared to some of the other guys maps, but I'm 
> happy with that. :) It's part 1 of 3, but when I actually get to do parts 2 
> and 3 is another matter...

I have never made anything in my entire life that has been downloaded 
more than about 12 times.

In fact, I just had a look at the bill for my webspace. Apparently I get 


I think 1,711 probably exceeds the total number of *visits* to my 
website! I know for a fact it exceeds the visits to my Zazzle gallery...

>> I had a go at building levels for Quake II once. It wasn't very
>> successful.
>>
>> Still, a while back I had a go at producing levels for HL2. Those didn't
>> even *run* correctly...
> 
>     Well, I can't comment on those games and engines as I've never 
> played/used them, but you have Farcry, so just load up Sandbox 1 (it's on 
> the disc) and you'll see what I mean when I said I didn't think I could do 
> it.

Yeah, but is it as impossible to operate as every other 3D editor out there?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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