Warp escreveu:
> clipka <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> From an outside observer's frame of reference, the victim not only *appears* to
>> be "hanging out there", he still physically *is*.
> 
>   How is he "physically" there? The external observer can't touch him nor
> communicate with him.

If he could, he'd be in the very same spacetime region and thus subject 
to the same effects.

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Warp escreveu:
>   The victim was not "hanging out" anywhere. There were simply some
> leftover photons there, going out (with asymptotically lessening frequency).
> 
>   When the event horizon recedes, these leftover photons will be in a
> less strong gravity field and will thus get a boostup. The photons which
> were almost touching the EH will now be farther away, and will get out
> in less time.


I thought you said, the speed of time is constant.  How can it slow down 
or boost up?

If we take it instead that near a humongous gravitational field 
spacetime is dilated, then light should have a hard time (bad pun) 
getting out of it, either because space expands near it or time slows 
down (which is about the same thing given space and time 
interchangeability)...

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nemesis wrote:
> Darren New escreveu:
>> clipka wrote:
>>> Maybe what we see isn't the "big bang" after all, but the "big crunch"?
>>
>> My favorite personal random idea is ... what if we really *are* at the 
>> center of the universe, and everything really *is* moving away from *us*?
> 
> Shouldn't then we not see them above the peak? 

Uh, 4D curvature. What if it isn't "everything is moving away from 
everything else" but really "everything is moving away from the Milky Way"?

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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Darren New escreveu:
> What if it isn't "everything is moving away from 
> everything else" but really "everything is moving away from the Milky Way"?

They know we're baddass mofos. :D

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nemesis <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I thought you said, the speed of time is constant.  How can it slow down 
> or boost up?

  It's not the speed of the photons which changes, but their timeframe.

  (No, I don't fully understand this myself. Don't ask for specifics.
I'm just blindly repeating what I have read. And it's perfectly possible
that I have misunderstood what I have read.)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp escreveu:
>   (No, I don't fully understand this myself. Don't ask for specifics.
> I'm just blindly repeating what I have read. And it's perfectly possible
> that I have misunderstood what I have read.)

we're all laymen, even the scientists. :)

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Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> clipka <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> > From an outside observer's frame of reference, the victim not only *appears* to
> > be "hanging out there", he still physically *is*.
>
>   How is he "physically" there? The external observer can't touch him nor
> communicate with him.

He can: He can send light pulses to him. And the poor victim can send light
pulses back. After all, he has not passed the EH yet.

Doing so, the observer will easily be able to convince himself that the victim
is still there. He's a bit slow of speech, but still responding. And the victim
will find it hard to understand the observer because he's speaking a bit fast,
but... well, from a theoretical point of view, they'll have no trouble still
communicating :)

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> I saw a great line:  "Of *course* God put the Earth in the center of the
> universe. That's why all the stars shine *towards us*!"

LOL - that's a good one :)

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> It's like waves, I guess. No matter how hard you try, you can't combine
> sin(t) and -sin(t) and wind up with a wave. It's not a matter of squeezing
> them real hard - they just cancel out.

Stupid bastards! We'll *make* them combine! :)

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> > So if there's no EH, you can just zip straight through the singularity?
>
> I think it's more that you can see things coming out of the singularity.

If that is so, then where do they come from? Must have fallen in there, don't
they? So *they* sort of zipped right through, right? ;)

> > I think I recall remember having heard that spinning black holes would actually
> > not have a point-shaped singularity at all, but a loop, because their drag on
> > spacetime is that extreme.
>
> Yep. And if you fly through the hole, you wind up ... somewhere else.

Ah... could that be a variation of that "fly into it - happen to most probably
be not there at all but someplace else" effect I suggested?

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