Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
> Darren New wrote:
>> http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=wirth
> 
> Awesome!

Indeed. I was *highly* amused. Even better than JFGI.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)

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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
>>> You can't just say "I did C and Pascal."  You have to say what *you*
>>> did, not what Ritchie and Wirth did. :-) Pretend the person looking at
>>> your resume didn't go to school for computers and doesn't even know what
>>> any of those words mean.
>> Whohewho? o_O
> 
> Ritchie is one of the creators of C. Never heard of Wirth, but from the
> sentence I'd guess he made Pascal...
> 

There was a funny saying about Wirth.  It goes something like 'He was 
called by value not by reference'.

It was big with the compiler writers.

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>> This is again untrue. The scripts don't "correct" anything,
> 
> You never wrote a script that fixed something?

Nope.

> Suggestion: don't put on your resume that there are a whole bunch of 
> other more-experienced people available, either. They know that too. :-)

Right, so... why are they going to hire me again??

>> Where do I stop? I mean, I could say I know HTML, CSS, XML, XSLT, 
>> LaTeX, PostScript, AmigaGuide... where do you draw the line?
> 
> Yep. Put all that in. Anything you think an employer might need.

Ooo, AmigaGuide, an obsolete markup language that predates HTML 1.0 by 
several years. They *really* need to know about that! :-P

>> Sure. But it's hard to disguise something that's actually true.
> 
> No doubt. But important nonetheless. :-)

Oh sure, I'm not doubting it's importance, I'm just saying it's really 
hard. :-(

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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Add POV-Ray?

LOL! I suppose I could explain that it's a Turing-complete scene 
description language for photorealistic image and animation construction 
/ scripting... that could sound impressive. ;-)

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>> Now there's an interesting problem. These guys will have stacks of 
>> people applying to them who are *lying through their teeth* about 
>> their actual capabilities. 
> 
> And they know that!
> 
>> How do I distinguish myself from these frauds?
> 
> At the interview.

Not if you don't get that far because all the lier's CVs looked way 
better. :-(

>>> Yes. That's exactly the attitude to take. Redo the whole resume with 
>>> that sort of thought in mind.
>>
>> What, severely exaggerating the truth throughout?
> 
> Yes. Bluntly, yes.

Isn't that illegal?

>> My point being that only a few of my grades *were* good. Most of them 
>> weren't.
> 
> Yes. That's the point of a resume vs a transcript. ;-)

And *my* point is that I don't have many grades worth mentioning, so if 
I split up my degree by year, it's gonna look pretty thin.

> The only "incomplete" I got was when I went to the wrong class all 
> semester. (Well, it was the right class, I just filled out the wrong 
> code number when I signed up. :-)

My "most impressive" grade was a D-. That doesn't sound very impressive, 
until you realise that I MISSED THE FREAKIN' EXAM! Not only did I manage 
to still pass the module, but I actually got a result several grades 
higher than a fail, on the strength of my coursework alone! (I actually 
missed *all* of the exams that term, and as a result failed everything 
but the programming.)

>>> Pipe organ recitals!
>> LOL! As if anybody is going to care... but sure, I can put that in. ;-)
> 
> You know, if the interviewer also plays the organ, you're right in. 
> Seriously. It's people.

You know... I *did* meet this guy from the Internet once who's 
philosophy on life is that if you enjoy the music of Pink Floyd, you 
must fundamentally be an OK sort of person. Like, "sure, he murdered his 
wife with a golf trophy. But he *loved* Obscured by Clouds, so he can't 
have been that bad a person." WTF?

>>> Eighteen year history of .... then list every language you could 
>>> write Hello World in. :-)
>>
>> Erm, I can see this getting me into trouble. It's unwise to claim 
>> extensive experience with something unless you really do *have* that 
>> experience.
> 
> You only need extensive experience in some of the stuff. "I have 
> extensive experience in many languages. I know blah, blah, and blah." 
> Say it in a way that implies you have extensive experience in all of 
> them, but which can be read to mean you have extensive experience in 
> some of them.
> 
> What's the worst that happens: They don't hire you.

Er, no... They hire you, find out you're lying, and press criminal 
charges for fraud. o_O

>>> Passion for teaching and mentoring, with a strong track record of 
>>> explaining complex topics in understandable ways. Samples available 
>>> on request.
>>
>> Er, dude... like *what*? :-P
> 
> All the posts you've put up here?  About Haskell and everything else?

Perhaps you mean all the posts I've put up here that expire after 30 
days? And besides, how many people have actually learned Haskell? So 
far, I think Warp is about the only person. (And he says he did that by 
reading tutorials online, not from anything *I* wrote.)

>> Whohewho? o_O
> 
> http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=wirth

:-P

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Paul Fuller wrote:

> There was a funny saying about Wirth.  It goes something like 'He was 
> called by value not by reference'.
> 
> It was big with the compiler writers.

In that case, I guess one could say that people call Simon P Jones by 
need, not by value...

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Jim Henderson wrote:

> There are no guarantees in life - that's the way it is.  But like I've 
> said before, Andy, DON'T decide for a prospective employer what you're 
> worth - THAT'S THEIR JOB, NOT YOURS.

...unless they say "so how much are you expecting us to pay you?" ;-)

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>>> Eighteen year history of .... then list every language you could write
>>> Hello World in. :-)
>> Erm, I can see this getting me into trouble. It's unwise to claim
>> extensive experience with something unless you really do *have* that
>> experience.
> 
> When did Darren tell you to say "extensive experience"?

18 years sounds pretty "extensive" to me. ;-)

>>> Passion for teaching and mentoring, with a strong track record of
>>> explaining complex topics in understandable ways. Samples available on
>>> request.
>> Er, dude... like *what*? :-P
> 
> That Haskell parser thing I don't even remember the name of. I understood it
> without even knowing Haskell. I insist: put that in the Haskell wiki!

Oh, you *liked* Parsec, eh?

(Since almost nobody commented on it, I figured nobody was interested...)

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>> There are no guarantees in life - that's the way it is.  But like I've 
>> said before, Andy, DON'T decide for a prospective employer what you're 
>> worth - THAT'S THEIR JOB, NOT YOURS.
>
> ...unless they say "so how much are you expecting us to pay you?" ;-)

Actually here in Germany it's quite different to the UK, no job advert ever 
says what salary they are going to pay, not even a range.  You have to tell 
them what you are expecting.

Also watch out because when they are interviewing you they will likely ask 
what your current salary is.  Make sure you have a figure in your head for 
when they ask you this question.  DO NOT tell them your real salary because 
it is way lower than someone like you deserves.  By answering this question 
with 25K instead of 15K you will have just earnt yourself an extra 10K per 
year for the rest of your life.  No matter how much you hate lying, you'd be 
really really stupid to tell them the truth, because they are only going to 
pay you the minimum they think they need to.

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> Right, so... why are they going to hire me again??

Because nobody better applied.

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