somebody wrote:
> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:48def574@news.povray.org...
>> You bought a computer - you use
>> it for posting to online forums.  You pay Shaw Cable, what, $22/month
>> maybe for 'net connectivity?  Or do you bundle and get basic cable
>> (another $32.95/month), or add phone service for another $20.95/month?
>>
>> That's an awful lot of money you spend on something as frivolous as
>> entertainment.  Seems to me that money would be better spent by donating
>> it (let's assume you bundle the first two lowest-cost services and spend
>> only about $55 before taxes per month) - that's $660/year you could be
>> donating to cancer research.
> 
> Thank you for your very helpful calculations. I'll be sure to go offline and
> save my money. In a little over 15 million years, I will have thus saved
> enough money to donate an equal sum to medical research what LHC is costing.
> 
> You are joking, right? Contrary to what you might have been led to believe,
> one man doesn't make a difference. Not that way anyway. Be sure to share
> your other bright schemes, however.
> 

Well, see. I presumed that you expected everyone else to be good 
Samaritans and follow suit.. Lets see 300,000,000 people * $660... 
$198,000,000,000? See, if everyone just sat on a couch and stared at 
walls, instead of "doing", anything, they would make up the cost of the 
entire LHC project in one year! Mind, that isn't including the probably 
trillions more spent on trips, gas, boats and other recreational 
vehicles, etc. Its ingenious. We just figure that if you care so much 
about this, *you* should be the one leading the charge. ;) lol

-- 
void main () {

     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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"Patrick Elliott" <sel### [at] npgcablecom> wrote in message
news:48dfc635@news.povray.org...
> somebody wrote:
> > "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> > news:48def574@news.povray.org...

> >> You bought a computer - you use
> >> it for posting to online forums.  You pay Shaw Cable, what, $22/month
> >> maybe for 'net connectivity?  Or do you bundle and get basic cable
> >> (another $32.95/month), or add phone service for another $20.95/month?
> >>
> >> That's an awful lot of money you spend on something as frivolous as
> >> entertainment.  Seems to me that money would be better spent by
donating
> >> it (let's assume you bundle the first two lowest-cost services and
spend
> >> only about $55 before taxes per month) - that's $660/year you could be
> >> donating to cancer research.

> > Thank you for your very helpful calculations. I'll be sure to go offline
and
> > save my money. In a little over 15 million years, I will have thus saved
> > enough money to donate an equal sum to medical research what LHC is
costing.
> >
> > You are joking, right? Contrary to what you might have been led to
believe,
> > one man doesn't make a difference. Not that way anyway. Be sure to share
> > your other bright schemes, however.

> Well, see. I presumed that you expected everyone else to be good
> Samaritans and follow suit..

You presumed wrong. It's precisely because everybody else *will not*
voluntarily donate $660 (or whatever amount you can come up with) for
medical research that funds need to be allocated by organizations or
government. Think of it this way; do you think LHC had a snowball's chance
in hell if it relied on individual donations to raise $10 billion?

> Lets see 300,000,000 people * $660...
> $198,000,000,000? See, if everyone just sat on a couch and stared at
> walls, instead of "doing", anything, they would make up the cost of the
> entire LHC project in one year! Mind, that isn't including the probably
> trillions more spent on trips, gas, boats and other recreational
> vehicles, etc. Its ingenious. We just figure that if you care so much
> about this, *you* should be the one leading the charge. ;) lol

No. When I say research funding should be prioritized with applied sciences
on top and theoretical sciences with no practical applications dead last, I
am not proposing an alternate method of collecting allocating those funds
such as going grassroots or voluntary. Volunterism doesn't work (*).
Arguments based on *if everybody* (""if everybody inflated their tires an
extra PSI, we would save billions in gas!"") don't work. Governments and
institutions should still handle the process, but more intelligently.

(*) Unless it's a useless but geeky endavours like Mersenne prime search or
SETI, and there's a prize involved.

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And lo on Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:03:47 +0100, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>  
did spake, saying:

> somebody wrote:

>  > It's the same kind of meaningless pursuit as analyzing the
>> makeup of a galaxy 5 billion light years away. There can be no  
>> application
>> whatsover, even in one's wildest dreams.
>
> So, you'd rather wait for the asteroid to actually hit the earth before  
> you start building telescopes capable of seeing it coming?

Perhaps more the case that he wants someone to have said "Hey something  
big might hit us and it'd be a good idea to get some warning so let's  
build a telescope". Of course it requires someone to think of that  
otherwise no astronomical telescope will every be built as it serves no  
purpose.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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And lo on Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:44:32 +0100, somebody <x### [at] ycom> did spake,  
saying:

> If the goal is to support building of faster computers through demand,  
> give each employee of LHC a copy of FarCry 2 and send them home. It  
> would be much cheaper than $10 billion.

I agree, if the goal was to build faster computers; however that would  
require someone with a ton of cash to say "Hey we need faster computers"  
to which the response would be "Why?"

> He was working at CERN when he made the invention, but he could have  
> very well
> have been working at IBM or Apple or Walmart or Starbucks
> (well, he'd have better access to networks
> at that time with the former two).
<snip>
> The important point is, CERN's high energy physics research did not give
> rise to Tim Berners-Lee's invention.

Most importantly a) The abilty at CERN to display pictures and text at the  
same time would have been very useful, and b) No-one at CERN came in and  
told him to stop working on it and get back to what he was supposed to be  
doing. Somehow I don't see that happening at IBM, Apple, Walmart, or  
Starbucks.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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"Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote in message
news:op.uh81hewkc3xi7v@news.povray.org...
> And lo on Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:44:32 +0100, somebody <x### [at] ycom> did spake,
> saying:

> > If the goal is to support building of faster computers through demand,
> > give each employee of LHC a copy of FarCry 2 and send them home. It
> > would be much cheaper than $10 billion.

> I agree, if the goal was to build faster computers; however that would
> require someone with a ton of cash to say "Hey we need faster computers"
> to which the response would be "Why?"

You got to be kidding (on both accounts). IBM, Intel, AMD, Sun, nVidia...
etc are those someone's with a ton of cash, and I don't think anybody asks
why we need faster computers (no POV user that I know of anyway).

> > He was working at CERN when he made the invention, but he could have
> > very well
> > have been working at IBM or Apple or Walmart or Starbucks
> > (well, he'd have better access to networks
> > at that time with the former two).
> <snip>
> > The important point is, CERN's high energy physics research did not give
> > rise to Tim Berners-Lee's invention.

> Most importantly a) The abilty at CERN to display pictures and text at the
> same time would have been very useful, and b) No-one at CERN came in and
> told him to stop working on it and get back to what he was supposed to be
> doing. Somehow I don't see that happening at IBM, Apple, Walmart, or
> Starbucks.

Admittedly not likely at Walmart and Starbucks, but IBM, Apple, Bell (in its
heyday, now Lucent to an extent), Xerox, even the newcomer Google... etc
have thousands of such inventions for each one that came out of CERN. Can
you name a *second* practical invention that came out of CERN off the top of
your head, for example? Can you name a practical invention that came out of
Fermilab, RHIC, SLAC... etc? Not that there haven't been, but my point is
that Tim Berners-Lee's is a singular and more or less a random case.

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On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 00:41:13 -0600, somebody wrote:

> Thank you for your very helpful calculations. I'll be sure to go offline
> and save my money. In a little over 15 million years, I will have thus
> saved enough money to donate an equal sum to medical research what LHC
> is costing.

You're completely missing my point.

Jim

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And lo on Tue, 30 Sep 2008 03:02:10 +0100, somebody <x### [at] ycom> did spake,  
saying:

> "Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote in message
> news:op.uh81hewkc3xi7v@news.povray.org...
>> And lo on Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:44:32 +0100, somebody <x### [at] ycom> did spake,
>> saying:
>
>> > If the goal is to support building of faster computers through demand,
>> > give each employee of LHC a copy of FarCry 2 and send them home. It
>> > would be much cheaper than $10 billion.
>
>> I agree, if the goal was to build faster computers; however that would
>> require someone with a ton of cash to say "Hey we need faster computers"
>> to which the response would be "Why?"
>
> You got to be kidding (on both accounts). IBM, Intel, AMD, Sun, nVidia...
> etc are those someone's with a ton of cash, and I don't think anybody  
> asks why we need faster computers (no POV user that I know of anyway).

Except that would appear to be faster computers for the sake of faster  
computers. What you're repeating here is the "We need faster computers to  
do this" which is just indirect demand.

>> > He was working at CERN when he made the invention, but he could have
>> > very well
>> > have been working at IBM or Apple or Walmart or Starbucks
>> > (well, he'd have better access to networks
>> > at that time with the former two).
>> <snip>
>> > The important point is, CERN's high energy physics research did not  
>> give
>> > rise to Tim Berners-Lee's invention.
>
>> Most importantly a) The abilty at CERN to display pictures and text at  
>> the
>> same time would have been very useful, and b) No-one at CERN came in and
>> told him to stop working on it and get back to what he was supposed to  
>> be
>> doing. Somehow I don't see that happening at IBM, Apple, Walmart, or
>> Starbucks.
>
> Admittedly not likely at Walmart and Starbucks, but IBM, Apple, Bell (in  
> its
> heyday, now Lucent to an extent), Xerox, even the newcomer Google... etc
> have thousands of such inventions for each one that came out of CERN. Can
> you name a *second* practical invention that came out of CERN off the  
> top of
> your head, for example? Can you name a practical invention that came out  
> of
> Fermilab, RHIC, SLAC... etc? Not that there haven't been, but my point is
> that Tim Berners-Lee's is a singular and more or less a random case.

Except that Bell etc have set up the type of 'open' research departments  
that you are complaining about.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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> HEP operates in a domain not presently or foreseeably applicable to 
> everyday
> life.

Heh, didn't someone famously say exactly the same when the transistor was 
invented?

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"Phil Cook" <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote in message
news:op.uiaa2diyc3xi7v@news.povray.org...

> > Admittedly not likely at Walmart and Starbucks, but IBM, Apple, Bell (in
> > its
> > heyday, now Lucent to an extent), Xerox, even the newcomer Google... etc
> > have thousands of such inventions for each one that came out of CERN.
Can
> > you name a *second* practical invention that came out of CERN off the
> > top of
> > your head, for example? Can you name a practical invention that came out
> > of
> > Fermilab, RHIC, SLAC... etc? Not that there haven't been, but my point
is
> > that Tim Berners-Lee's is a singular and more or less a random case.

> Except that Bell etc have set up the type of 'open' research departments
> that you are complaining about.

No. I complain about "wrong" type of research. "Open" research is a red
herring brought into the picture by those who confuse practical side
benefits of research in purely academic fields (which may, or more likely,
may not, yield any side benefits) with benefits of directed applied research
which is flexible (which will most definitely yield primary benefits, and
likely side benefits - Bell Labs model). Plus it's a balancing game. If
researching some theoretical avenues in the course of your main activity
costs a few thousand dollars, that might be worth it. It's not the same as
putting $10 billlion into one narrow academic field of research.

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scott nous illumina en ce 2008-09-30 05:09 -->
>> HEP operates in a domain not presently or foreseeably applicable to 
>> everyday
>> life.
> 
> Heh, didn't someone famously say exactly the same when the transistor 
> was invented?
> 
> 
Not just for the transistor! When the Wright brothers made their first flight or 
the first photographs where made, the first computer constructed, the first 
vacuum tubes tested, peoples said something like: "It's all good and nice, but 
it will never get everydays use" Just remember that the very first steam engines 
where made during the Plato era...

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; 
that is the principal difference between a dog and a man.

Mark Twain

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