Chambers wrote:
> Money is an imaginary concept anyway. 

No it's not. It's only fiat money that's imaginary.

> Do you really think that you 
> physically have all the money in your bank account?  

No. Indeed, I don't even have the "money" that's in my wallet in the 
terms of green pieces of paper.

> so what's the 
> difference between the 1% of your net worth you carry with you being 
> cash versus some form of electronic payment?

That I can actually have as much of my net worth I want in the form of 
anonymous untraceable bits of paper I can use to buy stuff with?

Say you're the wife of an abusive police officer. Wouldn't it be nice to 
be able to hire a cab and buy a bus ticket without your abusive 
homicidal husband being able to ask the bank where it is you're hiding?

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
  kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
  who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
  and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?

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Chambers wrote:

> number in *several* computers, thanks to redundancy :) ), so what's the 
> difference between the 1% of your net worth you carry with you being 
> cash versus some form of electronic payment?
> 

The differences are several I think.

There is not what amounts to a tax on commerce going straight into 
financial institution coffers, if two people use cash as an interface. 
There is with electronic, and if all money were electronic this would 
amount to a tax from the 'bank' on all existing commerce.  Further, 
there would be little cost to adding tax apon tax apon tax.  Tax money 
for everybody with influence.  Whoopee if you're one of them.

But if you are of the underclass, the demi-monde. You bear the burden. 
Also, if you have little access to the establishment, if you are 'other' 
and deemed undesireable, and cannot access the official mediums for 
money exchange, without cash the sanctions against you would be even 
more severe.  With the availability of currency, those forced to inhabit 
this shadow world could carry %100 of their 'net worth' as cash.

With solely electronic money, the ability for those in power to monitor 
people is enhanced tremendously as was already mentioned, and along with 
such control comes the ability to sanction others.

Now, there will always be a blackmarket and barter will always be used 
to circumvent this because such a homogeous world as is implicit in the 
vision of a cashless world can never exist.

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St. wrote:
> "Mueen Nawaz" <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote in message 
> news:489b20cd$1@news.povray.org...
> 
>> I now try to use the CC for online-only transactions. There was a long 
>> while where I just kept it at home. I try to pay whatever I can in cash 
>> now. Not to save money, but I got wary of various companies knowing my 
>> shopping habits.
> 
> 
>  That's exactly what I do. I hope they never get rid of cash, to me, it's 
> the most important thing in life, (as far as paying something goes). I 
> wouldn't feel safe if there wasn't any hard cash to use.
> 
>> Paranoia, as Sabrina said.
> 
>     Yes, that's it.
> 
>        ~Steve~
> 
> 

I hope neither of you are using those 'customer benefit' cards that 
everyone hands out. Or, at the least, carry 8 of them for the same store 
with different invalid addresses under fake names.

And I wonder why my key chain gets heavy . . .

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Darren New wrote:
> Phil Cook wrote:
>> Same thing with the majority of utility bills - the invoice comes 
>> through and the payment drawn a few days later.
> 
> While handy, it hasn't been available in the USA long enough for me to 
> trust it to work reliably. :-) It only took them about 5 or 10 years 
> before direct deposit failed to suck. No way am I letting them take it 
> *out* without my interaction.
> 

I have to agree. Besides, I find it much simpler to know that you always 
have to manage that withdrawal of money at a certain time, rather then 
remembering to do it the one time you charge too much. And the late fees 
on a credit card are normally much kinder then the overdraft fees from 
the bank.

The only time I've seen automated utility payment done right, was when 
it automatically billed a credit card. Cash back bonus, ding the utility 
company for the service fee, and have that extra month to pay it.

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On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:21:25 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:

>
>Say you're the wife of an abusive police officer. Wouldn't it be nice to 
>be able to hire a cab and buy a bus ticket without your abusive 
>homicidal husband being able to ask the bank where it is you're hiding?

There is also "skimming" to take into account.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skimming_%28credit_card_fraud%29#Skimming
Cash is anonymous and safe to use. Also it is quicker to get the transaction
through a till if the shop is using a dial up connection.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen wrote:

> There is also "skimming" to take into account.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skimming_%28credit_card_fraud%29#Skimming
> Cash is anonymous and safe to use. Also it is quicker to get the transaction
> through a till if the shop is using a dial up connection.

Yeah the speed/convenience does depend on circumstance.  For instance it 
cuts two ways with me.  At the gas pump the card is faster and more 
convenient than having to walk some cash over to the bullet-proof booth, 
maybe wait in a line, overpay, then walk back, pump the gas, then back 
over to the cashier to get any change.  But in the taxi, waiting for a 
customer to pay with a card slows things way down.  Utterly frustrating 
to loose a fare to another cab because you can't get your current people 
out of the car fast enough.  And then of course there is the wait to get 
your receipts from the dispatcher at the end of the shift.

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On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:30:20 -0400, Jim Charter <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote:

>Yeah the speed/convenience does depend on circumstance.  For instance it 
>cuts two ways with me.  At the gas pump the card is faster and more 
>convenient than having to walk some cash over to the bullet-proof booth, 
>maybe wait in a line, overpay, then walk back, pump the gas, then back 
>over to the cashier to get any change.  But in the taxi, waiting for a 
>customer to pay with a card slows things way down.  Utterly frustrating 
>to loose a fare to another cab because you can't get your current people 
>out of the car fast enough.  And then of course there is the wait to get 
>your receipts from the dispatcher at the end of the shift.

Here we still fill up with fuel then pay. Some places do have card facilities at
the pumps though. "Pre-pay", it is a terrible world :(
My pet peeve is people who pay for "small change" shopping with a card. But then
I'm getting old and cantankerous ;)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen wrote:
> Here we still fill up with fuel then pay. Some places do have card facilities at
> the pumps though. "Pre-pay", it is a terrible world :(

Sadly, one pump-and-run can take the profit of an entire week from the 
gas station.

> My pet peeve is people who pay for "small change" shopping with a card. But then
> I'm getting old and cantankerous ;)

I get annoyed at people who pay with a personal check for that sort of 
stuff, myself. Altho I understand that's usually not their own fault.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Ever notice how people in a zombie movie never already know how to
  kill zombies? Ask 100 random people in America how to kill someone
  who has reanimated from the dead in a secret viral weapons lab,
  and how many do you think already know you need a head-shot?

Post a reply to this message

Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> I hope neither of you are using those 'customer benefit' cards that 
> everyone hands out. Or, at the least, carry 8 of them for the same store 
> with different invalid addresses under fake names.

	Valid point. I have one for one store. I've always felt like getting 
another one with a fake address. Then I felt that would just be plain 
dishonest. Then I end up deciding to just shop elsewhere.

-- 
When a toast with butter falls from your hand, it always falls on the 
butter side.

When a cat falls from a height, it always lands on her feet.

If you tie a buttertoast over a cat with the butterside to the top, and 
let both fall, what will face the floor, the butter or the feet?


                     /\  /\               /\  /
                    /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                        >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                    anl

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"Sabrina Kilian" <"ykgp at vtSPAM.edu"> wrote in message 
news:489e857d$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> "Mueen Nawaz" <m.n### [at] ieeeorg> wrote in message

> I hope neither of you are using those 'customer benefit' cards that 
> everyone hands out. Or, at the least, carry 8 of them for the same store 
> with different invalid addresses under fake names.

    Noooo thank you. :)  Heard enough horror stories about them.

>
> And I wonder why my key chain gets heavy . . .

    Why does it get heavy?

     ~Steve~

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