> Sure, but in most cases when multiple cards are misused you can trace it 
> back to one or more stores if that happens.

Unless the store never puts through the orders on the cards they steal.

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> Huh?  Our border folks ask for *credit card info* upon entry to the US?  
> That's news to me....But I always go through the "citizens" line, so I'm 
> not as familiar with what the process is for non-citizens.

	Citizens of some countries (now all except for a few?) are required to 
go through what was once called "special registration" when they enter 
the US. You know - that program they started in 2002 to register all 
non-permanent residents of certain countries residing in the US? 
Offshoot of that. Credit card info was very often asked in those 
sessions. I haven't asked anyone whose come in recently, but it wouldn't 
surprise me if they still ask that often.
	
-- 
----> If you cut here, you'll ruin your monitor. <----


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                        >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                    anl

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On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:37:29 +0200, scott wrote:

>> Sure, but in most cases when multiple cards are misused you can trace
>> it back to one or more stores if that happens.
> 
> Unless the store never puts through the orders on the cards they steal.

That's true, but the store would have to be complicit as well, then - or 
there'd be serious underages in sales and problems with inventory 
reconciliation.

Jim

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On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:19:00 +0200, andrel wrote:

> On 23-Jul-08 0:46, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 00:01:43 +0200, andrel wrote:
>> 
>>> Sure, but in most cases when multiple cards are misused you can trace
>>> it back to one or more stores if that happens. With e-mail it can
>>> happen anywhere. I guess that whatever I write to these guys in NZ my
>>> mail will pass through the US at some point and at least their
>>> security service will scan it for tell tale words. When I'd fly to the
>>> US they also want my recent credit card info, so I assume they also
>>> filter those numbers out from e-mails that happen to pass through
>>> their territory. Actually they would do that even for e-mails that
>>> never reach the US. And so would the dutch and the sovjet intelligence
>>> services.
>> 
>> Huh?  Our border folks ask for *credit card info* upon entry to the US?
>> That's news to me....But I always go through the "citizens" line, so
>> I'm not as familiar with what the process is for non-citizens.
> 
> What they want to know is what credit cards you have and what you bought
> from who. Just to make sure you don't have financial relations with
> extremists of a religion other than the dominant one in the US. Or so
> they say. You don't have to provide that yourself upon entry. Your
> airline has to provide part of it and the banks have to provide the rest
> and that is all before you are actually in the states. I don't know the
> exact details, these are in treaties between the US and the EU. I can
> only assume the EU signed that out of free will and that all details are
> public.

Wow, I never realized it was that bad.  I knew about the fingerprinting 
and whatnot you go through entering the country, but not about that 
banking stuff on the backend.

>> But it's not so much about the security services - it's about the
>> thieves who use the information for their own ends.
> 
> I know, just making the point that if you exchange credit card info by
> e-mail, someone is probably aware of that. And that hacking some
> machines in the US (and elsewhere) may provide you with credit card info
> from a substantial group of people.

Oh, I see.

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On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:40:09 -0500, Mueen Nawaz wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Huh?  Our border folks ask for *credit card info* upon entry to the US?
>> That's news to me....But I always go through the "citizens" line, so
>> I'm not as familiar with what the process is for non-citizens.
> 
> 	Citizens of some countries (now all except for a few?) are 
required to
> go through what was once called "special registration" when they enter
> the US. You know - that program they started in 2002 to register all
> non-permanent residents of certain countries residing in the US?
> Offshoot of that. Credit card info was very often asked in those
> sessions. I haven't asked anyone whose come in recently, but it wouldn't
> surprise me if they still ask that often.

Ah, I see - I hadn't heard of that before, at least not in this context.  
Is this what's called the "Visa waiver program"?

Jim

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On 23-Jul-08 21:54, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:40:09 -0500, Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> 
>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> Huh?  Our border folks ask for *credit card info* upon entry to the US?
>>> That's news to me....But I always go through the "citizens" line, so
>>> I'm not as familiar with what the process is for non-citizens.
>> 	Citizens of some countries (now all except for a few?) are 
> required to
>> go through what was once called "special registration" when they enter
>> the US. You know - that program they started in 2002 to register all
>> non-permanent residents of certain countries residing in the US?
>> Offshoot of that. Credit card info was very often asked in those
>> sessions. I haven't asked anyone whose come in recently, but it wouldn't
>> surprise me if they still ask that often.
> 
> Ah, I see - I hadn't heard of that before, at least not in this context.  
> Is this what's called the "Visa waiver program"?

LOL, no, but it could be.

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On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:57:24 +0200, andrel wrote:

> On 23-Jul-08 21:54, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:40:09 -0500, Mueen Nawaz wrote:
>> 
>>> Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> Huh?  Our border folks ask for *credit card info* upon entry to the
>>>> US? That's news to me....But I always go through the "citizens" line,
>>>> so I'm not as familiar with what the process is for non-citizens.
>>> 	Citizens of some countries (now all except for a few?) are
>> required to
>>> go through what was once called "special registration" when they enter
>>> the US. You know - that program they started in 2002 to register all
>>> non-permanent residents of certain countries residing in the US?
>>> Offshoot of that. Credit card info was very often asked in those
>>> sessions. I haven't asked anyone whose come in recently, but it
>>> wouldn't surprise me if they still ask that often.
>> 
>> Ah, I see - I hadn't heard of that before, at least not in this
>> context. Is this what's called the "Visa waiver program"?
> 
> LOL, no, but it could be.

Who knows, maybe now TPTB have seen the suggestion and it'll show up next 
year.  You heard it here first - and from someone with absolutely nothing 
to do with it. ;-)

Jim

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> Ah, I see - I hadn't heard of that before, at least not in this context.  
> Is this what's called the "Visa waiver program"?

	No. The original thing was "Special Registration":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Registration

	The fingerprinting, picture taking, etc  in the airports that you 
alluded to in the other post began as part of that program. Every male 
of a certain age range from those countries had to undergo that process 
- although the officers were free to require anyone from other countries 
to undergo it as well - as they saw fit. The announcement at the time 
was that eventually they'd require it of all incoming non-permanent 
residents - with a few exceptions (some or all EU countries, etc).

	The domestic special registration ended a mere year later. They kept 
the one at the ports. I don't know if they achieved the "goal" of 
requiring it of all countries (with the exception of the few).

	So it's during the very same fingerprinting session that they've often 
asked for credit card info. Why miss out on an opportunity to monitor folks?

	(Just bothered to read the Wikipedia entry. The current program is at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Visitor_and_Immigrant_Status_Indicator_Technology

Page claims it is now required of almost all countries (Canada being the 
only exception?))

-- 
If you think nobody cares, try missing a couple of payments.


                     /\  /\               /\  /
                    /  \/  \ u e e n     /  \/  a w a z
                        >>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
                                    anl

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:37:29 +0200, scott wrote:
> 
>>> Sure, but in most cases when multiple cards are misused you can trace
>>> it back to one or more stores if that happens.
>> Unless the store never puts through the orders on the cards they steal.
> 
> That's true, but the store would have to be complicit as well, then - or 
> there'd be serious underages in sales and problems with inventory 
> reconciliation.
> 
> Jim

Swipe cards on fake reader, and store data on computer.
Tell customer that the machine is having problems, ask for cash instead.
As each card approaches it's exp date over the next year, use it for 
single large purchase.

The store wouldn't have to be complicit, the clerk would just have to be 
organized.

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>> Unless the store never puts through the orders on the cards they steal.
>
> That's true, but the store would have to be complicit as well, then - or
> there'd be serious underages in sales and problems with inventory
> reconciliation.

If it's a small 1-man-show store then that shouldn't be a problem. 
Otherwise the "criminal" can just put cash in the register to avoid 
detection.

I always wonder with those chip&pin boxes that everywhere has now (in the UK 
and Germany at least), how do you ever know that the box is genuine?  Makes 
me feel like always deliberately typing in a wrong PIN number first time, 
just to see if it correctly states it was wrong :-)

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