> Darren New wrote:
>>
>> % cat a b c >d
>> Can't create d: permission denied
>> % sudo !!
>> Can't create d: permission denied
>>
>> Of course, the real line was much longer, so a simple "su" meant 
>> retyping the line (or using copy-and-paste to retype it for you) 
>> instead of just !! or up-arrow. :-)
>>
> 
> <up arrow><home>su -c <enter>

On some ssh sessions, and on MSYS bash shell, pressing home or end keys 
types a ~ symbol instead of moving the cursor. Probably something I have 
to configure...

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On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 04:55:23 -0500, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 17:44:45 -0500, Warp wrote:
> 
>> > Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> >> cd /tmp/stuff; find -type f | grep tmp$ | awk '{system("rm \"" $0
>> >> "\""))'
>> > 
>> >   Why does it need to be so complicated?
>> > 
>> >   find /tmp/stuff -name "*.tmp" -exec rm {} \;
> 
>> Because there's a million ways to do it, and I haven't memorised all
>> the options for the find command.
> 
>> In the time that it would take me to look up the options for find, I've
>> written the command-line out.
> 
>   But now you know. The -exec option of find is actually quite useful.
> Learn to use your tools. :)

Yes, now I know - and I never would claim to "know it all" (been burned 
too many times with things I do know more than the average person about - 
and then had something pointed out I didn't know <g>).

So I do appreciate you teaching me that one.  New weapon for the 
arsenal. :-)

Jim

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Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> wrote:
> > <up arrow><home>su -c <enter>

> On some ssh sessions, and on MSYS bash shell, pressing home or end keys 
> types a ~ symbol instead of moving the cursor. Probably something I have 
> to configure...

  ctlr-a to get to the beginning of the line, ctrl-e to get to the end.
(ctrl-u to erase the entire line is a good shortcut to know too. ctrl-l
clears the console (in interactive full-console programs it usually
refreshes the console).)

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Orchid XP v7 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> What I'm saying is that "Unix" isn't a single coherant design. It's 
>> 50,000 random people all doing their own seperate thing, and expecting 
>> the result to actually function. Which, almost unbelievably, it does. 
>> But *damn* is it messy...
> 
>   I really fail to see how that is at all different from Windows. ;)

Well, Windoze certainly ended up being a pretty serious mess... But at 
least it does a better job of presenting a coherant appearence if 
nothing else.

The trouble with Linux is that everything is 50,000 utterly *tiny* 
pieces, each of which does almost nothing useful by itself, and you have 
to put thousands of these tiny pieces together to do anything useful.

The trouble with Windoze is that *everything* is one gigantic lump. (And 
it's a very buggy, undocumented and unreliable lump at that.)

Why can't somebody build an OS with a *sane* level of granularity?? What 
would be so hard about that?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> What I'm saying is that "Unix" isn't a single coherant design. It's 
>> 50,000 random people all doing their own seperate thing, and expecting 
>> the result to actually function. Which, almost unbelievably, it does. 
>> But *damn* is it messy...
> 
> When you're writing a single, simple tool, with well defined inputs and 
> outputs, it's much easier to make it work *no matter what*.  When each 
> tool is maintained by a separate group of people, they may not share the 
> same design ideology, but they're much more likely to operate correctly 
> under unexpected circumstances.
> 
> So the fact that it works as often as it does shouldn't really surprise 
> anyone.

Hooooookay then... let me see...

http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?ls

So the program to "list the contents of a folder" has 59 seperate 
command-line options?

And what do these options do? Well, some of them control which fields to 
show or not show. Some control which way to sort the list. Some control 
which files to show/hide. Some control various formatting options 
(escape filenames, use colour, grid or column view).

I just love the way they interact:

   -lct: Show ctime, sort by ctime.
   -lc:  Show ctime, sort by name.
   -c:   Hide ctime, Sort by ctime.

What the hell??

So, rather than having options to select individual fields to show or 
hide, and another option specifying which field to sort by, we have this 
ad-hoc *mess* of haphazardly interacting command switches that you have 
to spend 20 minutes studying the manpage to decode the interactions for?

In what universe is this a "simple tool" with "well defined inputs and 
outputs"?

Also: autoconf exists. Need I say more?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Fri, 07 Mar 2008 21:06:57 -0000, Nicolas Alvarez  
<nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> did spake, saying:


>> Heck, I use version 7...even 8 was too bloatware for my taste.
>
> http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/psp5.png
>
> I tried 8 or 9 and I was impressed at the amount of bloat.

But wasn't it v7 that introduced the ability to layout and print multiple  
images? Such a handy little thing.

-- 
Phil Cook

Using PSP7.04

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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> Why can't somebody build an OS with a *sane* level of granularity?? What 
> would be so hard about that?

GNU Hurd, if I understand it correctly, splits the kernel into pieces too :)

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> And lo on Fri, 07 Mar 2008 21:06:57 -0000, Nicolas Alvarez 
> <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> did spake, saying:
>> http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/psp5.png
>>
>> I tried 8 or 9 and I was impressed at the amount of bloat.
> 
> But wasn't it v7 that introduced the ability to layout and print 
> multiple images? Such a handy little thing.

I don't have a working printer, so meh.

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Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

>> Why can't somebody build an OS with a *sane* level of granularity?? 
>> What would be so hard about that?
> 
> GNU Hurd, if I understand it correctly, splits the kernel into pieces 
> too :)

Ah yes, but in Unix land, a device driver is counted as part of the 
kernel. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:15:34 -0000, Nicolas Alvarez  
<nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> did spake, saying:


>> And lo on Fri, 07 Mar 2008 21:06:57 -0000, Nicolas Alvarez  
>> <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> did spake, saying:
>>> http://stuff.povaddict.com.ar/psp5.png
>>>
>>> I tried 8 or 9 and I was impressed at the amount of bloat.
>>  But wasn't it v7 that introduced the ability to layout and print  
>> multiple images? Such a handy little thing.
>
> I don't have a working printer, so meh.

In that case you're probably fine with v5, the only reason I'd be looking  
to upgrade is that v7 doesn't retain EXIF data and I think v8 upwards does.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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