andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> Aside, one of the problems is that it has 
> become unclear as to what an OS is. I don't think a text editor is part 
> of it, nor is a card game, yet there are companies who try to make us 
> think differently.

  There's a difference between an OS and an OS distro. For example the
text editor may be part of the OS distro although it's not a critical
part of the OS itself. (In other words, the computer can be still used
even if the text editor is removed, thus the text editor is clearly not
part of the underlying OS.)
  One main difference between an OS and an OS distro is that there can
exist different distros of the same OS, while the OS part is the same
in all of them.

  Of course in many cases the distinction becomes very fuzzy. Is, for
example, a device driver part of the OS or part of the distro? I suppose
in the case of Linux it's really part of the OS because device drivers
are compiled into the kernel, while in the case of Windows it's not so
clear, as device drivers can be quite separate from the kernel (and many
of them are even optional).

  Also, is a firewall an integral part of the OS, or is it just a app
in the distro?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:36:20 -0500, nemesis wrote:
> 
>> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:39:11 -0500, nemesis wrote:
>>>
>>>> "somebody" <x### [at] ycom> wrote:
>>>>> Antivirus, anti-malware and firewall should be an integral and
>>>>> irreplacable part of the OS, for any modern OS.
>>>> I think much more important is anti-stupid-user protection. :)
>>> That's easy.  Take the keyboard and mouse away.
>> or just install Linux and marvel at them fearing touching it. :)
> 
> That works right up to the point that they realise it's not so scary 
> after all....
> 
> Jim
By which time they might have learned something

John

-- 
I will be brief but not nearly so brief as Salvador Dali, who gave the
world's shortest speech. He said, "I will be so brief I am already
finished," then he sat down.

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Mike the Elder wrote:
> Doctor John <doc### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> .....
>> 'Nuff said
> 
> And now for the key supplementary
> list of software that does not function
> properly when using Microsoft Vista:
> 
> 1.)  Microsoft Vista
> 
> ;-)
> 
ROTFLMAO


-- 
I will be brief but not nearly so brief as Salvador Dali, who gave the
world's shortest speech. He said, "I will be so brief I am already
finished," then he sat down.

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Warp escribió:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>>> I think much more important is anti-stupid-user protection. :)
> 
>> That's easy.  Take the keyboard and mouse away.
> 
>   I think taking the mouse away is enough.
> 

So sadly true.

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On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:06:28 +0000, Doctor John wrote:

> By which time they might have learned something

<G>

Heaven forbid. ;-)

Jim

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On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:41:15 -0500, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> > I think much more important is anti-stupid-user protection. :)
> 
>> That's easy.  Take the keyboard and mouse away.
> 
>   I think taking the mouse away is enough.

Fair point. ;-)

Jim

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Warp wrote:
> in the case of Linux it's really part of the OS because device drivers
> are compiled into the kernel,

Is that still true, tho? I thought the "modules" stuff took care of 
that? Like loading the encryption loopback device makes something new in 
/dev (/dev/loop0) yes?

Or am I just confused?

>   Also, is a firewall an integral part of the OS, or is it just a app
> in the distro?

Clearly the ability to examine connections has to be part of the OS if 
the TCP stack is part of the OS. How you decide to permit or refuse a 
connection is probably in user-space if you can afford the inefficiency.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > in the case of Linux it's really part of the OS because device drivers
> > are compiled into the kernel,

> Is that still true, tho? I thought the "modules" stuff took care of 
> that? Like loading the encryption loopback device makes something new in 
> /dev (/dev/loop0) yes?

> Or am I just confused?

  Driver modules can be dynamically linked to the kernel at runtime.
They are still part of the kernel, though. Once linked they are part
of the kernel code, have all the same rights and all the same access.
Moreover, there's no standard stable binary interface between the modules
and the rest of the kernel. A module compiled for one version of the
kernel may well not work with the next version. In other words, all the
device driver modules must always be provided with each new version of
the kernel. Closed source binary-only driver modules are not feasible
(because they would only work for a very limited range of kernels).

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
>> Or am I just confused?
>   Driver modules can be dynamically linked to the kernel at runtime.

Thanks for the explanation!

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

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somebody wrote:
> "Tim Cook" <z99### [at] gmailcom> wrote in message
> news:47bf2aeb$1@news.povray.org...
> 
>> Which means that, in theory, they fixed security holes that AV and
>> firewalls use to do low-level system calls, thereby also blocking off a
>> lot of viruses/malware in the process.
> 
> Antivirus, anti-malware and firewall should be an integral and irreplacable
> part of the OS, for any modern OS.
> 
> 


It is - you can use the ultra useful and secure MS security programs.

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