nemesis wrote:

> no, but Toyotas and Fords are built from standard industrial mechanical 
> components.

So ... I can just simply drop a Ford engine into a Toyota? or use a 
steering wheel from a Corolla in a Focus? I had no idea...

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On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:36:05 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> I just try not to spend time on things that don't interest me. [I  
> thought everybody else did too...]

The problem is that you seem to be interested in so very few things.


-- 
FE

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Mike Raiford wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> 
>> no, but Toyotas and Fords are built from standard industrial 
>> mechanical components.
> 
> So ... I can just simply drop a Ford engine into a Toyota? or use a 
> steering wheel from a Corolla in a Focus? I had no idea...

no, but those are built out of pretty much all the same components.

Like I said about OpenGL, it's not a "competitor's product", it's a 
standard API well known in the industry with several different 
implementations, including from M$.  It's the blueprints of an engine, 
not the engine.

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nemesis wrote:
> It's not the "competitors' software", it's an industry-strength API.

It's a floor polish! It's a salad dressing!  But wait, it's both!

Do you think that OpenGL isn't a competitor to DirectX? Do you think 
that DirectX isn't a reason some people buy or develop for Windows?

> They could provider their own implementation,

Like they did with Java, and got sued?

> but regardless of MS participating of
> standards bodies like the W3C, they just choose to turn it down in favour of
> their proprietary incompatible "standards".

Is OpenGL unavailable for Windows?  What, really, is the problem?

> Supporting industry-strength standards should only be a good thing.

They support it. There's a wide difference between "supporting" and 
"providing free as part of a download of a compiler."

> something major players in the industry agreed are a good thing.  It's
> something consumers would agree to be a good thing if only the most used
> platform more actively supported it,

OpenGL runs fine on Windows. It just isn't included by default in MS's 
free compiler download. If you want support for it, buy it.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

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> Do you think that OpenGL isn't a competitor to DirectX? Do you think 
> that DirectX isn't a reason some people buy or develop for Windows?

No. OpenGL and DirectX can't be compared. OpenGL and Direct3D (one of 
the many components of DirectX), ok that could be :)

</nitpick>

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Warp wrote:
> stbenge <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> VC is no small 
>> download, not for those of us still struggling with dialup (I get 24Kpbs 
>> here :(...)
> 
>   Which is exactly why it sounds so stupid to immediately uninstall it
> right after he had downloaded and tested it, and just because of such
> a mundane reason.

It wasn't the only reason.

I had already struggled with the 2005 version, which would not link my 
project because the linker claimed to be unable to resolve a reference 
to one of the Windows API library calls.  This was after following all 
of the instructions that dealt with configuring it to build native 
Windows applications, and I did have the appropriate libraries specified 
in the linking.  I didn't uninstall VC 2005, but I did neglect to 
reinstall it after reinstalling WinXP a few weeks ago.

I later found that MSVC 2008 Express was available, and gave it a try.

After importing my project and attempting a build, it issued warnings 
for stupid things like the fact that an explicit recast might cause a 
loss of precision.  "No!  You're kidding!"

It also issued error messages because it couldn't find the database file 
that it generates for each project.  I went looking for the file, and it 
was right there, where the compiler claimed it couldn't find it.  Looked 
  up the error code in the help feature for possible reasons the 
compiler was denying the existence of a file.  The search feature in 
help couldn't find the error code in the docs.

Then I saw the line that indicated that OpenGL was lacking, and I 
decided at that point that getting the compiler to work wasn't going to 
be worth the trouble.  I probably could have copied the stuff over from 
my Watcom directory, true, but at that point I was getting rather 
annoyed at the whole package.

I might give it another shot on another day, when I have nothing better 
to do, but for now, I'll stick with what works.

Regards,
John

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nemesis wrote:
> Mike Raiford wrote:
>> nemesis wrote:
>>
>>> no, but Toyotas and Fords are built from standard industrial 
>>> mechanical components.
>>
>> So ... I can just simply drop a Ford engine into a Toyota? or use a 
>> steering wheel from a Corolla in a Focus? I had no idea...
> 
> no, but those are built out of pretty much all the same components.

Steel?  Yeah, I suppose.

> Like I said about OpenGL, it's not a "competitor's product",

Sure it is. Who do you think created it?  Then they opened the standard 
to make it competitive with MS.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

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Fredrik Eriksson wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:36:05 +0100, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> I just try not to spend time on things that don't interest me. [I 
>> thought everybody else did too...]
> 
> The problem is that you seem to be interested in so very few things.

And this is a "problem" because...?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New wrote:

> Seriously, name any other company at all in any product range that 
> pushes other people's products.

Washing machine manufacturers seem awfully keen for you to use a 
particular brand of detergent...

[Similarly for cars and engine oil.]

However, that's clearly not a *competing* product. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New wrote:

>> They could provider their own implementation,
> 
> Like they did with Java, and got sued?

They got sued because they tried to *change* it to deliberately make it 
incompatible. [You know, the whole Embrace, Extend, Extinguish trip.]

> Is OpenGL unavailable for Windows?  What, really, is the problem?

Indeed.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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