scott wrote:
>> As far as I can tell, the problem is that it's cheaper to make stuff 
>> in some distant country than to make it right here. When that changes, 
>> the problem should go away...
> 
> I don't think it will ever be the case that it costs the same to make 
> something in every country on Earth...

No. But if the price difference wasn't *so* vast, the cost of transport 
would make it work out to be cheaper in general to make stuff near to 
where you want it rather than half way across the world.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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And lo on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:43:12 -0000, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:28:30 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>
>> On 6 Feb 2008 17:02:53 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>>
>>> Those who tend to be successful, I think, tend to be people who instead
>>> of learning "how to build a paint sprayer", but rather how to follow
>>> instructions on how to build something.
>>
>> That is dispiriting.
>
> What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the world
> is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt or
> die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.

Except ever since conveyor-belt style systems were introduced the skills  
gap has gotten wider and more difficult to jump.

>>> From there, one possible career path is process optimization, which can
>>> open a bunch of other doors as well.
>>>
>>>> That's the problem or at least one of them. Not everyone has the
>>>> opportunity to re-skill and move up.
>>>
>>> At least in my experience, the opportunities are there, but the
>>> motivation often isn't.  Of course, it's not 100% who have the
>>> opportunities (or don't have the motivation).
>>
>> I saw it differently here when Mrs T started to go the way she did. (I
>> won't go into that. It is an old story and you shouldn't talk politics
>> or religion if you want to keep friends. Oh what the Hell I can't keep
>> my mouth shut :)
>
> I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I don't
> have a lot of friends. ;-)

Heh my current favourite topic is how the Conservative Party is promising  
to either bring back or abolish things that they removed or introduced  
last time they were in power. No-one remembers that's the trouble.

> I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative
> merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's
> wrong <g>) and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those who
> are observant of that particular faith.  Of course, his definition for
> "religion" is pretty narrow - you have to believe in a monotheistic god,
> which generally narrows the field to Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
> By his definition, Buddhism and Hinduism don't (and shouldn't) qualify.

The FSM is monotheistic :-)

>>> A big problem also has to
>>> do with people living beyond their means; when you do that, you can't
>>> take a lower paying job while you are re-skilling.
>>
>> How very true. Debt is a major problem here in the UK.
>
> Yeah, I understand that you guys are catching the sub-prime mortgage wave
> that hit us the end of last year.  Don't get bitten.

Big fuss quite a while ago about banks encouraging people to lie about  
their earnings in order to qualify for a mortgage, ah well I dealt with  
that on my blog some time ago. But Northern Rock is still a touchy subject  
in terms of the sub-prime wave.

>  I also understand
> that there's been an interesting development in a bank bought by Citi
> over there - that they're terminating accounts for people with *good*
> credit because they're not making any money on interest.  Terminating
> accounts for people who pay their cards off every month:  What's the
> world coming to?

Egg. Supposedly terminating accounts of high-risk customers (about 7% of  
their base) i.e. those whose credit ratings have changed for the worse  
since they applied; trouble is some of those terminated customers are  
pointing at their perfect credit ratings. The common factors for these  
people appear to be their status as homeowners and that they pay off the  
balance in full every month. IOW they don't make any money for Egg and  
instead could be persuaded to take out a big fat loan instead using their  
home as collateral.

Not really new - MBNA added an annual charge to people who didn't use  
their credit card enough and apparently First Direct started charging a  
monthly fee for customers who didn't credit enough money into their  
accounts each month.

The option is simple - move companies, there's enough about.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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And lo on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:58:42 -0000, Jim Henderson  
<nos### [at] nospamcom> did spake, saying:

> So I use an RF transmitter instead,
> and that generally works well.

They used to be illegal here. Well to be precise you were using a device  
that sent a signal that your radio could receive wirelessly and thus by  
law were classified as a broadcaster, for which you needed a licence  
costing a few grand. Only got changed at the end of 2006 so as to allow  
low-power broadcasters.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On 6 Feb 2008 17:43:12 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
 
>> That is dispiriting.
>
>What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the world 
>is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt or 
>die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.
>

No I meant that you feel that it is the people that learn how to follow
instructions as apposed to people who learn how to build something that will be
successful. That is dispiriting.

>
>I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I don't 
>have a lot of friends. ;-)

Maybe you weren't brought up in a region that was renowned for violence and
religious bigotry. I was and it is taboo for a very good reason IMO. Although I
understand others feel differently.:)

>I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative 
>merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's 
>wrong <g>) 


It is not surprising to me that the "Old Religion" is not considered a religion
by some.
and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those who 

>Add to that his statement that belief that science can eventually explain 
>everything is irrational (but belief in an invisible guy in the sky who 
>controls everything isn't?), and you've got a conversation that's ripe 
>for lots of fun shouting. :-)  Needless to say, *I've* been having fun 
>with it.

Ah! Well. Each to their own and rib him mercilessly :)


>Yeah, I understand that you guys are catching the sub-prime mortgage wave 
>that hit us the end of last year.  Don't get bitten.  

Too late [quote http://www.creditaction.org.uk/debt-statistics.html ] Average


actually have some form of unsecured loan.

>I also understand 

> :  What's the 
>world coming to?

It looks like its going to Hades in a wheelbarrow. :) But then I've been hearing
that all my life. If you extrapolate that back there must have been a Golden Age
:-)

>Yep.  I have to admit that I'm concerned about my retirement fund; 

I've decided to work until I die. :)
But then I like my work. Thinking about it I just like working :)

> I was 
>stupid when I was in my early 20s and closed my 401(k) account so I could 
>make a down payment on a house.  That money would, in the long run, been 
>much better left invested where it was.  I may have another 30-35 years 
>of working time left before I retire, but the operation of compound 
>interest would've served me well with the money I put in when I was 19-22.

If only we could see into the future but don't get me started on religion :)


>It can be a bit depressing at times.  That said, I love the job, though, 
>and right now couldn't see myself doing anything else.  I've always been 
>a bit mercenary when it comes to employment (though there are things I 
>*won't* do), and for the first time in my career, I'm in a place where, 
>if something "better" came along I probably wouldn't take it.  I would 
>look at it, but IME "better" is always a case of appearances, and things 
>are pretty good where I am.  I made a jump once before for "better" and 
>it was (work-wise) a very bad call.  Life-wise, it worked out very well 
>(I met my wife because I moved for the job), but I was miserable for 
>about 2 years, and unemployed for 6 months of that.
>

I'm glad you found something you like and I hope that it lasts for as long as
you want it to.
And as my old granny used to say. "What's for you, won't go past you."


>That's always a good ego-boost, isn't it? 

Yes

> Current job sent me to 
>Barcelona a few years ago (and actually, it was before I was in this job 
>- I was doing some of the job prior to moving back into the department), 
>and this year is looking like I'll get to at least go to Europe (probably 
>Germany) and Australia, possibly also New Zealand and Japan (the latter 
>will be on my own dime to visit my brother - I figure if I'm "in the 
>neighborhood" I should go visit him in Osaka).

The brotherly thing to do, IMO. :)
Keep us posted it sounds like it could be Pov-Con on a world tour. :)

>I really enjoy travel - the actual "getting there" bit isn't a lot of 
>fun, but once I'm there, I like to get out and see things.
>
In a nutshell! But my wife actually likes the travel part. (Weird :)


Regards
	Stephen

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On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:54:17 -0000, "Phil Cook"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>> What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the world
>> is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt or
>> die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.
>
>Except ever since conveyor-belt style systems were introduced the skills  
>gap has gotten wider and more difficult to jump.

I agree. I started out working on the factory floor and now I help to introduce
technology that makes life easier for fewer. :(


Regards
	Stephen

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> http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/acceleration_and_torque.php
>
> Gets by with only two gears, and can supposedly be kept in second gear at 
> all times while still performing adequately.

The 0-60 time certainly seems impressive, but I'm concerned about the very 
low top speed (compared to other cars with this sort of 0-60 performance). 
I wonder what the acceleration is like between 70 and 100 mph?

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scott wrote:
> some huge global tax on shipping

Like, $100/barrel oil? :-)


-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

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>> some huge global tax on shipping
>
> Like, $100/barrel oil? :-)

Make it $10000/barrel for international shipping and you might see some 
changes.  At the moment it costs almost nothing to ship an item round the 
world two or three times.

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> http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/acceleration_and_torque.php
>
> Gets by with only two gears, and can supposedly be kept in second gear at 
> all times while still performing adequately.

I have just been playing about with the details from that car in a simulator 
I have here.  Some interesting facts:

1) The motor output torque seems to be limited to exactly the right amount 
at low rpm to provide roughly 1.1g of acceleration in 1st gear.  This is 
probably matched to the tyres on dry tarmac to provide optimal acceleration 
without having to worry about traction control.

2) It really would benefit from having a 3rd gear.  It runs out of steam at 
125mph, but that's not because the air drag equals the engine power, but 
because it's run out of rpm in 2nd gear.  If I give it a 3rd gear with a 
gear ratio of 1.15 it can get up to 145 mph which is a bit more impressive 
for a car with really good low speed performance.  In theory that's the true 
top speed possible with this electric motor and that body shape.

3) I made it have a race with a stock BMW 123d (I just happened to have all 
the details for that car) and it's quite interesting.  Obviously the insane 
low speed torque helps the electric car to get a really good lead from a 
standing start, but after just 7 seconds the BMW is now accelerating faster. 
However it takes until 48 seconds for the BMW to catch up because it's so 
much slower at the start.  After that the BMW just pulls away due to it's 
better high-speed performance, moving roughly 10 metres further away every 
second.

In conclusion, you'll be the quickest on the road under 40 or 50 mph, and 
one of the quickest up to 80 or 90 mph.  Around 100 and above "normal" cars 
will be passing you... :-)

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On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:54:17 +0000, Phil Cook wrote:

>> What, that people have to evolve their skills?  That's the way the
>> world is (at least in the so-called "western world") these days.  Adapt
>> or die....It sounds harsh, but it's reality.
> 
> Except ever since conveyor-belt style systems were introduced the skills
> gap has gotten wider and more difficult to jump.

True, but nobody ever said life was easy, either.  The problem is that 
it's often difficult to distinguish between lazy/unmotivated and when 
something's truly too difficult.

>> I'm happy to talk either politics or religion.  Maybe that's why I
>> don't have a lot of friends. ;-)
> 
> Heh my current favourite topic is how the Conservative Party is
> promising to either bring back or abolish things that they removed or
> introduced last time they were in power. No-one remembers that's the
> trouble.

We've watched a bit of that discussion on PMQT (we get about 30 minutes 
of that a week on CSPAN over here).  Of course, PMQT is entertaining in 
and of itself as you watch people try to avoid answering direct questions 
directly.

>> I'm having a great debate right now with someone about the relative
>> merits of calling Wicca a religion (he doesn't believe it is, and he's
>> wrong <g>) and the US armed forces holding weekly services for those
>> who are observant of that particular faith.  Of course, his definition
>> for "religion" is pretty narrow - you have to believe in a monotheistic
>> god, which generally narrows the field to Christianity, Judaism, and
>> Islam. By his definition, Buddhism and Hinduism don't (and shouldn't)
>> qualify.
> 
> The FSM is monotheistic :-)

LOL, I'll have to remember that one. :-)

>>> How very true. Debt is a major problem here in the UK.
>>
>> Yeah, I understand that you guys are catching the sub-prime mortgage
>> wave that hit us the end of last year.  Don't get bitten.
> 
> Big fuss quite a while ago about banks encouraging people to lie about
> their earnings in order to qualify for a mortgage, ah well I dealt with
> that on my blog some time ago. But Northern Rock is still a touchy
> subject in terms of the sub-prime wave.

Yeah, ain't that the truth.  I need to read your blog entry, somehow it 
didn't show up.  That's on LJ, isn't it?

>>  I also understand
>> that there's been an interesting development in a bank bought by Citi
>> over there - that they're terminating accounts for people with *good*
>> credit because they're not making any money on interest.  Terminating
>> accounts for people who pay their cards off every month:  What's the
>> world coming to?
> 
> Egg. Supposedly terminating accounts of high-risk customers (about 7% of
> their base) i.e. those whose credit ratings have changed for the worse
> since they applied; trouble is some of those terminated customers are
> pointing at their perfect credit ratings. The common factors for these
> people appear to be their status as homeowners and that they pay off the
> balance in full every month. IOW they don't make any money for Egg and
> instead could be persuaded to take out a big fat loan instead using
> their home as collateral.

Egg, that's the one.  We're generally like that as well (got one card 
that's nearly maxxed out at over $10K, due to the need to replace our 
boiler - but at a great interest rate; the others don't get used hardly 
at all).  Yet they keep raising our limits; it's to the point that I'm 
actively afraid to use the cards for fear I'll go crazy and max them all 
out and not be able to make even the minimum payments.  Better they just 
sit in the safe unused.

> Not really new - MBNA added an annual charge to people who didn't use
> their credit card enough and apparently First Direct started charging a
> monthly fee for customers who didn't credit enough money into their
> accounts each month.

Huh, now that I wasn't aware of.

> The option is simple - move companies, there's enough about.

Yep, same approach we use.  It pays to be mercenary about what banks you 
do business with these days.

Jim

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