And lo on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:46:32 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

> Phil Cook wrote:
>
>>> And electric windows.
>>  Actually I don't like electric windows, the only advantage to them I  
>> see is when you're squashed up in a car you're not jammed up against  
>> the turning handle.
>
> What, you mean apart from the fact that you can now open and close the  
> windows while the car is moving?

And yet amazingly before the advent of electric windows many people  
managed this complicated feat without a problem nor complaint.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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>>>  Actually I don't like electric windows, the only advantage to them I 
>>> see is when you're squashed up in a car you're not jammed up against 
>>> the turning handle.
>>
>> What, you mean apart from the fact that you can now open and close the 
>> windows while the car is moving?
> 
> And yet amazingly before the advent of electric windows many people 
> managed this complicated feat without a problem nor complaint.

Well, no, you just had to stop somewhere in order to open or close the 
window. Not fun if it suddenly starts raining...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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> Sure, *new* cars probably do have a whole load of good stuff in them. But 
> who can afford to buy cars new?

7.5 million new cars were sold in the US in 2004, so presumably some people 
can afford them.  A lot of people get given them by their company, and a lot 
of other people just buy cars that are a few years old (but not decades).

> Well I imagine they give you nice cars while yours is being serviced.

Actually this one was smaller (which I actually preferred) but a lot slower 
than mine.  It was almost brand new though (900 km on the clock IIRC).

> I hired a car once - I forget why - and it didn't have an ignition key. Go 
> figure. (Was really horrible to drive though... I think it was an Astra? 
> Might be wrong.)

I got a VW Passat like that once, also had a digital button instead of a 
handbrake - never got used to it in the week or so I had to drive it.  I'm 
told that my new car automatically shuts off the engine whenever you stop, 
and as soon as you put it in gear the engine starts automatically again. 
Saves up to 8% fuel consumption in city driving apparently.  I will wait 
until I actually drive it before commenting further, although the fuel 
consumption figures are very impressive compared to my existing car 
(especially given it's heavier and has 50% more power!).

> I very much doubt many people can afford to buy one of these things new 
> though...

I see lots of new cars on the road - especially in England where you can 
instantly tell the age by looking at the numbers on the licnese plate.  They 
look like ordinary people driving ordinary cars to me - nothing fancy.

> Or rather, how many people are richer than me?

Based on your posts here, it seems you could be easily in a job earning a 
good salary that would allow you to buy a new car.  You seem much cleverer 
than a lot of people I know who aren't exactly poor.

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scott wrote:
>> Sure, *new* cars probably do have a whole load of good stuff in them. 
>> But who can afford to buy cars new?
> 
> 7.5 million new cars were sold in the US in 2004, so presumably some 
> people can afford them.

Hmm. I wonder how many people there are in the US? Even so, that's A LOT 
of cars. You buys must be loaded! :-D

>> I hired a car once - I forget why - and it didn't have an ignition 
>> key. Go figure. (Was really horrible to drive though... I think it was 
>> an Astra? Might be wrong.)
> 
> I got a VW Passat like that once, also had a digital button instead of a 
> handbrake - never got used to it in the week or so I had to drive it.

I believe my dad had a curtisy car like that one time... Damn weird. It 
also had a dashboard that looked like the bridge of a starship...!

> I'm told that my new car automatically shuts off the engine whenever you 
> stop, and as soon as you put it in gear the engine starts automatically 
> again. Saves up to 8% fuel consumption in city driving apparently.  I 
> will wait until I actually drive it before commenting further, although 
> the fuel consumption figures are very impressive compared to my existing 
> car (especially given it's heavier and has 50% more power!).

I still can't figure out why they don't make a car that's electric, but 
has a small deisel generator in the boot...

(You'd only need to run it when the battery gets low. You wouldn't waste 
fuel sitting in traffic. Electric motors don't require a gearbox or a 
differential, so you'd get continuous acceleration without gear shifts...)

>> I very much doubt many people can afford to buy one of these things 
>> new though...
> 
> I see lots of new cars on the road - especially in England where you can 
> instantly tell the age by looking at the numbers on the licnese plate.  
> They look like ordinary people driving ordinary cars to me - nothing fancy.

Hmm. I guess I just come from a very poor family then. *shrugs*

>> Or rather, how many people are richer than me?
> 
> Based on your posts here, it seems you could be easily in a job earning 
> a good salary that would allow you to buy a new car.  You seem much 
> cleverer than a lot of people I know who aren't exactly poor.

Do I really give that impression? Interesting... Certainly when 
everybody tells me I'm an idiot for not knowing who Stallman or So 
Greats is, I don't *feel* particularly cleaver. :-S

Anyway, I'm hoping to get a better job soon. The problem is going to be 
that I have no experience as a commercial programmer, and I don't know 
any of the trendy languages except Java... [And I have to give 3 months' 
notice.]

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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> Hmm. I wonder how many people there are in the US? Even so, that's A LOT 
> of cars. You buys must be loaded! :-D

In 2004 2.6 million new cars were sold in the UK.  There's 60 million people 
in the UK.

> I believe my dad had a curtisy car like that one time... Damn weird. It 
> also had a dashboard that looked like the bridge of a starship...!

The prize for that one has to go to the Honda Civic I had a few months back. 
Definitely like controlling a spaceship with it's 2-tier curvy dashboard, 
blue lights everywhere, and big 7-segment digital speedo at the top.

> I still can't figure out why they don't make a car that's electric, but 
> has a small deisel generator in the boot...
>
> (You'd only need to run it when the battery gets low. You wouldn't waste 
> fuel sitting in traffic. Electric motors don't require a gearbox or a 
> differential, so you'd get continuous acceleration without gear shifts...)

Actually you would need a gearbox for it to be useful.  Electric motors 
generate maximum torque at very slow speeds, the faster the motor goes the 
lower the torque.  This is exactly the wrong thing you need for a car, where 
the faster you go the more torque you need to overcome the speed squared air 
drag.  If you didn't use a gearbox you'd end up with a car capable of 
burning out the tyres at low speed, but that took 10 minutes to accelerate 
from 60 to 70 mph.

And "small" diesel generator?  What happens if you run out of juice while 
doing 80mph on the motorway?  Stop and wait 45 minutes for it to recharge 
the batteries enough to get you home without being run over by trucks?

> Do I really give that impression? Interesting... Certainly when everybody 
> tells me I'm an idiot for not knowing who Stallman or So Greats is, I 
> don't *feel* particularly cleaver. :-S

But compared to the average person in the street earning an average salary 
doing an average job, yeh, you seem pretty clever.

> Anyway, I'm hoping to get a better job soon. The problem is going to be 
> that I have no experience as a commercial programmer, and I don't know any 
> of the trendy languages except Java... [And I have to give 3 months' 
> notice.]

Don't worry about the 3 months notice, a lot of people have that and your 
new employer will expect it.  Is there not anything else you would like to 
do apart from being a full-time programmer in some language you probably 
won't even like?  Even just applying to be an IT dude for a larger company 
will likely get you more money, or at least the opportunity to move on in 
your career.  And then you might get the opportunity to show off some of 
your programming talent.

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And lo on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:07:29 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake, saying:

>>>>  Actually I don't like electric windows, the only advantage to them I  
>>>> see is when you're squashed up in a car you're not jammed up against  
>>>> the turning handle.
>>>
>>> What, you mean apart from the fact that you can now open and close the  
>>> windows while the car is moving?
>>  And yet amazingly before the advent of electric windows many people  
>> managed this complicated feat without a problem nor complaint.
>
> Well, no, you just had to stop somewhere in order to open or close the  
> window.

Why? Unless of course you're talking about non-driver's windows when  
no-one is sitting there.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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>> Well, no, you just had to stop somewhere in order to open or close the 
>> window.
>
> Why? Unless of course you're talking about non-driver's windows when 
> no-one is sitting there.

And unless you are really rich and have a huge car, you can just lean over 
and do the passenger window by hand whilst you're driving.

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scott wrote:
>> Hmm. I wonder how many people there are in the US? Even so, that's A 
>> LOT of cars. You buys must be loaded! :-D
> 
> In 2004 2.6 million new cars were sold in the UK.  There's 60 million 
> people in the UK.

Dude, how do you know all this??

>> I believe my dad had a curtisy car like that one time... Damn weird. 
>> It also had a dashboard that looked like the bridge of a starship...!
> 
> The prize for that one has to go to the Honda Civic I had a few months 
> back. Definitely like controlling a spaceship with it's 2-tier curvy 
> dashboard, blue lights everywhere, and big 7-segment digital speedo at 
> the top.

Yeah, IIRC this car didn't have a speed dial, just some numbers. In big, 
green 1980s style retro LEDs. You know, the big chunky ones...

>> I still can't figure out why they don't make a car that's electric, 
>> but has a small deisel generator in the boot...
>>
>> (You'd only need to run it when the battery gets low. You wouldn't 
>> waste fuel sitting in traffic. Electric motors don't require a gearbox 
>> or a differential, so you'd get continuous acceleration without gear 
>> shifts...)
> 
> Actually you would need a gearbox for it to be useful.  Electric motors 
> generate maximum torque at very slow speeds, the faster the motor goes 
> the lower the torque.  This is exactly the wrong thing you need for a 
> car, where the faster you go the more torque you need to overcome the 
> speed squared air drag.  If you didn't use a gearbox you'd end up with a 
> car capable of burning out the tyres at low speed, but that took 10 
> minutes to accelerate from 60 to 70 mph.

Mmm, interesting. I was told for example that some large freight train 
used electric motors because if they used diesel motors they would need 
a gearbox, and it would be impossible to make one strong enough...

> And "small" diesel generator?  What happens if you run out of juice 
> while doing 80mph on the motorway?  Stop and wait 45 minutes for it to 
> recharge the batteries enough to get you home without being run over by 
> trucks?

Well no, the generator cuts in when the batteries get down to 80% or 
something, charge them back up to 100%, then stop. [Unless you run out 
of fuel. Don't do that! In ANY car...]

>> Do I really give that impression? Interesting... Certainly when 
>> everybody tells me I'm an idiot for not knowing who Stallman or So 
>> Greats is, I don't *feel* particularly cleaver. :-S
> 
> But compared to the average person in the street earning an average 
> salary doing an average job, yeh, you seem pretty clever.

Really? Hmm, interesting...

I find it curios that anybody who speaks to me for more than a few 
minutes ends up saying "you're very cleaver". And "you need to be more 
positive". (Even if I don't say anything negative...)

>> Anyway, I'm hoping to get a better job soon. The problem is going to 
>> be that I have no experience as a commercial programmer, and I don't 
>> know any of the trendy languages except Java... [And I have to give 3 
>> months' notice.]
> 
> Don't worry about the 3 months notice, a lot of people have that and 
> your new employer will expect it.

Er, actually... when I spoke to the nice lady at the recruitment agency, 
she said "three MONTHS?! Jesus Christ!... Why so long?"

> Is there not anything else you would 
> like to do apart from being a full-time programmer in some language you 
> probably won't even like?

Well, given that I don't have any other useful talents... unless 
somebody is going to pay me to surf the net? Oh, wait, that's my current 
job...

> Even just applying to be an IT dude for a 
> larger company will likely get you more money, or at least the 
> opportunity to move on in your career.  And then you might get the 
> opportunity to show off some of your programming talent.

I don't like being the support guy. Almost all problems that occur are 
beyond my ability to fix, so everybody just hates me... Even when I fix 
it, everybody is still pissed that I didn't prevent it from happening in 
the first place. :-(

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Invisible wrote:
> Bill Pragnell wrote:
> 
>>> I'm a musician.
>>
>> Well, I wouldn't try that as an alternative to a bad car stereo. 
>> Especially if you're driving ;-)
> 
> Benny did. Damn fool drumming on the dashboard the whole way through the 
> trip!

Hmm, I can kind of see that working, but where did he put the bass?

;-)

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Invisible wrote:
> I don't like being the support guy. Almost all problems that occur are 
> beyond my ability to fix, so everybody just hates me... Even when I fix 
> it, everybody is still pissed that I didn't prevent it from happening in 
> the first place. :-(

... to which the answer is "I don't get paid enough for that!"

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