POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.off-topic : Electric sheep Server Time
11 Oct 2024 13:16:34 EDT (-0400)
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From: Nicolas Alvarez
Subject: Re: More sheep
Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:23:19
Message: <47864677@news.povray.org>

> Now, if I could make it download some more sheep... (You'd think 350 
> would be enough. However, it seems to be more like 15 actual images, 
> plus 15! morphs between them. Which isn't so interesting.)

There aren't morphs for all possible combinations. Nowhere near that.


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: More sheep
Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:23:34
Message: <47864686@news.povray.org>
Rune wrote:
> "Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote?
>> Now, if I could make it download some more sheep... (You'd think 350 would 
>> be enough. However, it seems to be more like 15 actual images, plus 15! 
>> morphs between them. Which isn't so interesting.)
> 
> Why 15! ?
> 
> For X images, wouldn't the necassary morphs between them be only X*(X-1)/2 
> and not X! ?

Hmm. Your knowledge of combinatorics clearly exceeds mine 
considerably... :-}

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: Nicolas Alvarez
Subject: Re: More sheep
Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:24:00
Message: <478646a0$1@news.povray.org>
Rune escribió:
> "Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote?
>> Now, if I could make it download some more sheep... (You'd think 350 would 
>> be enough. However, it seems to be more like 15 actual images, plus 15! 
>> morphs between them. Which isn't so interesting.)
> 
> Why 15! ?
> 
> For X images, wouldn't the necassary morphs between them be only X*(X-1)/2 
> and not X! ?

Note that morphs cannot be played backwards and make sense. A->B and 
B->A videos are different, so both are needed if you wanted all possible 
combinations.


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: More sheep
Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:25:12
Message: <478646e8@news.povray.org>
>> Now, if I could make it download some more sheep... (You'd think 350 
>> would be enough. However, it seems to be more like 15 actual images, 
>> plus 15! morphs between them. Which isn't so interesting.)
> 
> There aren't morphs for all possible combinations. Nowhere near that.

My point is that there seem to be several morphs for each loop, meaning 
that the number of morphs dawfs the number of actual loops...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: More sheep
Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:26:09
Message: <47864721$1@news.povray.org>
Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> Note that morphs cannot be played backwards and make sense.

Yes they can. But MPEG-2 doesn't make that real easy...

> A->B and 
> B->A videos are different, so both are needed if you wanted all possible 
> combinations.

They *can* be different, but no mathematical law that says they must be. 
(However, ES seems to implement it this way.)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: Nicolas Alvarez
Subject: Re: More sheep
Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:36:29
Message: <4786498d$1@news.povray.org>
Invisible escribió:
> Nicolas Alvarez wrote:
 > > Note that morphs cannot be played backwards and make sense.
 > Yes they can. But MPEG-2 doesn't make that real easy...

I know MPEG doesn't make it easy, but they wouldn't make sense anyway- 
Try it. Make a video of A, A, B->A backwards, B, B. See if the morph 
looks OK.

>> A->B and B->A videos are different, so both are needed if you wanted 
>> all possible combinations.
> 
> They *can* be different, but no mathematical law that says they must be. 
> (However, ES seems to implement it this way.)

In the way ES works, the loop is "rotating". The morph is interpolating 
sheep A to sheep B and *also* rotating. If you play it backwards, it 
would be rotating backwards, and the sudden jump in "direction" is 
really noticeable.


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From: Nicolas Alvarez
Subject: Re: More sheep
Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:37:59
Message: <478649e7@news.povray.org>
Nicolas Alvarez escribió:
> Try it. Make a video of A, A, B->A backwards, B, B. See if the morph 
> looks OK.

Actually, don't. I'll try to do it for you.


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: More sheep
Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:38:23
Message: <478649ff$1@news.povray.org>
>> They *can* be different, but no mathematical law that says they must 
>> be. (However, ES seems to implement it this way.)
> 
> In the way ES works, the loop is "rotating". The morph is interpolating 
> sheep A to sheep B and *also* rotating. If you play it backwards, it 
> would be rotating backwards, and the sudden jump in "direction" is 
> really noticeable.

I see. So there's a discontinuity in the 1st derivative then? ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Electric sheep
Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:41:36
Message: <47864ac0$1@news.povray.org>
Nicolas Alvarez wrote:

> I used to, but stopped because the MPEG video showing at fullscreen 
> (plus the fact that you may end up rendering frames for them) needs some 
> CPU time.

<I'm old>

I can remember when decoding MPEG-1 in realtime required specialised 
hardware - and encoding required a very high-end computer system!

And today, my PC is decoding MPEG-2 in realtime using idle CPU cycles... 
How times have changed!

</I'm old>


-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*


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From: Nicolas Alvarez
Subject: Re: More sheep
Date: 10 Jan 2008 11:42:20
Message: <47864aec@news.povray.org>
Invisible escribió:
> I see. So there's a discontinuity in the 1st derivative then? ;-)
> 

On the What?

o_0


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