John VanSickle <evi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> People who can afford *any* restaurant on a regular basis are not poor,
> and any definition of poor that includes such people is faulty.
>

I'd agree with "People who after a completely rational analysis of their
finances spend any time at a restaurant (and not skip on health care, rent,
college savings)  are not poor. "

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On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:07:23 -0500, Ross wrote:

> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
> news:475c3e4d@news.povray.org...
>> On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 10:24:07 -0800, Darren New wrote:
>>
>>> Incidentally, in the US, it's often cheaper to eat out at an
>>> inexpensive restaurant (like pizza of McD) than to buy fresh food to
>>> prepare at home. That's why poor people get fat here.
>>
>> I don't know about cheaper, but easier it certainly is.  Especially
>> with a bunch of kids that need to be fed.
> 
> Cheaper. Subsidized corn makes up the most used ingredient in everything
> on the menu at a place like McDonalds. From the filler in the meat (and
> what do they feed the meet factories? corn... they feed corn to an
> animal that is specialized to eat grassy greens. wtf), to the breading
> around the meat, the buns, french fries (what potatos?), beverage and
> salad dressing.

Well, let's see...

Stew beef, from CostCo:  $15 for 5 lbs. (1/4 lb = $0.75)

8 hamburger buns, about $2.50 ($0.31 per bun)

For 1/4 pound burgers, grind up the stew beef (pre-ground is more 
expensive by about $1 per pound IIRC), add a little bit of bread (we 
added 3 slices of bread chopped into fine bread crumbs - one loaf was 
about $1.35 IIRC and is maybe 15-20 slices - that handled 2.25 lbs of 
beef) - about $0.05 per burger.

So we're at $1.11 per burger, and it's fresh made instead of padded with 
corn.

One potato per serving of fries would be $0.20 (about $5 for 25 lbs, 
figure 1 lb per serving of fries).  A bit of oil to fry them in, peanut 
oil is good unless you have allergies to peanuts, otherwise sunflower oil 
works too).  Figure $4.00 for 4-5 uses (and each use is more than a 
single serving) - $0.15 per serving is probably a high estimate.

So the fries are about $0.35 per serving.

Drink will be the most expensive component if you want a brand name cola 
beverage.  I pay about $0.25 per 12 oz can in a case of 24.  So figure 
one of those...

Total cost:  $1.11 + $0.35 + $0.25 = $1.71 per meal.

IIRC, a quarter pounder with cheese meal costs around $4 around here.  
(It's been about 10 years since I ate at a McDonald's).

There are additional costs to making it yourself, of course - you've got 
to have equipment, for starters.  Time is also a factor to consider.

But I'll take the cheaper homemade burger any day over the trash served 
at McDonald's.

Jim

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> Time is also a factor to consider.

I think this is the key point, also laziness.  Why spend all the effort 
shopping and making stuff, when for a couple of $ more you can get it all 
done for you?  I suspect for most people the extra expense for a ready-made 
burger is less than what they could earn in the time it takes to buy 
ingredients and prepare.

Buying in bulk and doing it yourself is all very well, but unless you plan 
to eat burgers every night your ingredients are going to go bad pretty soon, 
then the cost benefit is wiped out.  Don't forget you have all the other 
stuff in the burger, like salad, sauces, cheese etc.

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Don't forget that a quarter-pounder in McDonald's most definitely does 
not contain a quarter-pound of meat, even before cooking, whereas Jim's 
burgers sound like they could be used as a 'standard' quarter-pound 
reference weight! :)

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> Don't forget that a quarter-pounder in McDonald's most definitely does 
> not contain a quarter-pound of meat, even before cooking,

From:

http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/Nutrition.pdf

"Quarter Pounder* with Cheese
Beef
100% Pure Beef. No additives, fillers, binders,
preservatives or flavour enhancers. Just pure
forequarter and flank. A little salt and pepper is
added to season after cooking. (*113.4 grams
approx. pre-cooked weight)."

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scott wrote:
>> Don't forget that a quarter-pounder in McDonald's most definitely does 
>> not contain a quarter-pound of meat, even before cooking,
> 
> From:
> 
> http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/Nutrition.pdf
> 
> "Quarter Pounder* with Cheese
> Beef
> 100% Pure Beef. No additives, fillers, binders,
> preservatives or flavour enhancers. Just pure
> forequarter and flank. A little salt and pepper is
> added to season after cooking. (*113.4 grams
> approx. pre-cooked weight)."

Yeah yeah. They look pretty good in the photos on the menu, too, but 
I've never had a burger that could be described like that from a 
McDonalds, even in the US.

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>> From:
>>
>> http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/Nutrition.pdf
>>
>> "Quarter Pounder* with Cheese
>> Beef
>> 100% Pure Beef. No additives, fillers, binders,
>> preservatives or flavour enhancers. Just pure
>> forequarter and flank. A little salt and pepper is
>> added to season after cooking. (*113.4 grams
>> approx. pre-cooked weight)."
>
> Yeah yeah. They look pretty good in the photos on the menu, too, but I've 
> never had a burger that could be described like that from a McDonalds, 
> even in the US.

I think they would be in a severe amount of trouble if what they were 
actually selling wasn't what they were advertising...  Whether you think it 
tastes like beef or not I guess is another matter ;-)

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scott wrote:
>>> From:
>>>
>>> http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/resources/img/sections/eatsmart/Nutrition.pdf
>>>
>>> "Quarter Pounder* with Cheese
>>> Beef
>>> 100% Pure Beef. No additives, fillers, binders,
>>> preservatives or flavour enhancers. Just pure
>>> forequarter and flank. A little salt and pepper is
>>> added to season after cooking. (*113.4 grams
>>> approx. pre-cooked weight)."
>>
>> Yeah yeah. They look pretty good in the photos on the menu, too, but 
>> I've never had a burger that could be described like that from a 
>> McDonalds, even in the US.
> 
> I think they would be in a severe amount of trouble if what they were 
> actually selling wasn't what they were advertising...  Whether you think 
> it tastes like beef or not I guess is another matter ;-)

Yes, there is that problem too :-)

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message 
news:475f0c60@news.povray.org...
> Ross <rli### [at] speakeasynet> wrote:
>> "Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message
>> news:475c3e4d@news.povray.org...
>> > On Sun, 09 Dec 2007 10:24:07 -0800, Darren New wrote:
>> >
>> >> Incidentally, in the US, it's often cheaper to eat out at an 
>> >> inexpensive
>> >> restaurant (like pizza of McD) than to buy fresh food to prepare at
>> >> home. That's why poor people get fat here.
>> >
>> > I don't know about cheaper, but easier it certainly is.  Especially 
>> > with
>> > a bunch of kids that need to be fed.
>
>> Cheaper. Subsidized corn makes up the most used ingredient in everything 
>> on
>> the menu at a place like McDonalds. From the filler in the meat (and what 
>> do
>> they feed the meet factories? corn... they feed corn to an animal that is
>> specialized to eat grassy greens. wtf), to the breading around the meat, 
>> the
>> buns, french fries (what potatos?), beverage and salad dressing.
>
>  It may be cheaper if you want to eat the *same* food you get from the
> restaurants. However, I'm sure that one can come up with cuisine that's
> actually cheaper and equally (if not even more) nutritive..
>

No doubt. However, in some neighborhoods of NYC there are no markets that 
carries fresh produce. And yes, they happen to be low income neighborhoods. 
McD's or Burger King on every corner though, I'd bet.

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On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:37:20 +0100, scott wrote:

>> Time is also a factor to consider.
> 
> I think this is the key point, also laziness.  Why spend all the effort
> shopping and making stuff, when for a couple of $ more you can get it
> all done for you?  I suspect for most people the extra expense for a
> ready-made burger is less than what they could earn in the time it takes
> to buy ingredients and prepare.

You know, though, I thought that way for years - turns out, the time 
factor really isn't as big a deal as I thought it was.  Sure, if I want 
to make bread it'll take me 4 hours (but most of that time is waiting).  
If I want to make fresh pasta, it's about an hour, but 15-30 minutes of 
that is also waiting.

> Buying in bulk and doing it yourself is all very well, but unless you
> plan to eat burgers every night your ingredients are going to go bad
> pretty soon, then the cost benefit is wiped out.  

That's why you break out the meat you need and freeze the rest.

> Don't forget you have
> all the other stuff in the burger, like salad, sauces, cheese etc.

Sure, but the cost spread over time there makes it a few cents more as 
well.

Jim

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