"Brian Elliott" <NotForSpam@AskIfUWant> wrote in message 
news:471b6c5d$1@news.povray.org...
>
> Yep it is possible and I may have a go at it.  Oracle Enterprise Manager 
> is much more work to set up than the Recovery Manager.  Although I was 
> earlier testing out the export on RMAN, OEM is more critical to preserve 
> because of the amount of work redoing it.
>
> RMAN has features that make life easier recovering from this situation: 
> When a database physical backup happens, as well as storing its backup job 
> info in the RMAN catalog, RMAN also stores it in the client DB's own 
> controlfile, which is part of the physical structure of the DB.  So the 
> database contains its own recovery information and backups do still happen 
> even with the catalog lost, and it does all get sent to tape eventually. 
> Secondly, Oracle version 10g (three DBs are 10g RMAN clients here) has a 
> cool, easy feature:  In one command, all the physical files in the backup 
> storage area are scanned, type-identified, and any orphan backups that are 
> unknown to the catalog can be added into it.  It is easy to build a new 
> empty catalog and then populate it with data from prior backups.
>
> I expect much more trouble with preserving OEM objects.  I haven't looked 
> in detail, but I expect it has a complex schema.  It would be best if I 
> use an AppDev tool to pull all the definitions for all objects, because it 
> would take much study and work to make a roll-your-own SQL script that 
> reads the data dictionary and dynamically writes user object build scripts 
> based on what it finds.
>
> Selecting from tables, their column definitions and table data are only a 
> small part of getting the data and structure out:  I have to get the 
> entire application out.  I would also have to make SQL to recreate:
>
> Table type (heap, index-organised, cluster, partition) Definitions of all 
> indexes and constraints on each table, foreign-key constraints to other 
> tables, tablespace and storage info, remembering again to do the same for 
> each of its indexes.
>
> Triggers on the tables -- PL/SQL code that fires before/after an 
> insert/update/delete.
> Sequences, including the number they are now at. (So new sequences are 
> created from that starting point instead of starting at one)
>
> Views -- named SQL that can be selected and joined as one uses a table in 
> most places.
> The program code stored in PL/SQL functions, procedures and packages.
>
> Jobs.  Ugh, I know the least about these.  I'm sure OEM will have job 
> schedules registered in the database engine.
>
> I already have a script that dynamically builds a bunch of creation SQL 
> scripts for such things as users (also preserving passwords by copying the 
> encrypted value), roles, grants, quotas.
>
> Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that the normal 
> procedure of building Enterprise Manager and discovering all the target 
> Oracle DBs, listeners, etc, setting up the administrators, alarm triggers, 
> notification pagers and emails -- bad as it is, it may be easier and more 
> reliable in the end.  Certainly the final result would have vendor 
> support, whereas one I made with manually-pulled data wouldn't, and you 
> could never be sure that what you made works 100% kosher and won't blow up 
> on you later or let you down in an emergency.
>
> We will have an export of the OEM schema.  It is just oldish because it is 
> before the exports began to fail.  I would try loading that before doing a 
> full rebuild or manual script-magic-blue-smoke anyway.

Ah yes, I forgot I would also have to include definitions for synonyms, 
materialized views and types.  There are likely more that I still haven't 
remembered.

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Michael Raiford wrote:
> school campus heard the resulting bang.

I had friends who worked at a science museum (the Franklin Institute) 
giving lectures and such. One day Tony filled a 3-foot weather balloon 
with hydrogen and oxygen, and put it on a long thread so it floated near 
the top of the lecture hall. (Picture a stadium-seating huge room like 
you see college lectures being given in in movies.) Then he points the 
parabolic heat lamp at it and turns off all the switches.

Kurt goes in, turns on all the lights, starts his lecture on liquid air. 
I walk in, and Tony is in the back of the room, going "SHhh! Shhh!"

About five minutes into the lecture, there's a kaBOOM that literally 
cracks some of the windows.  Kurt jumps about three feet, looks around, 
waves to Tony, and goes back to lecturing.

(This is the same Tony that couldn't figure out where the cardboard 
canister he'd stuffed home-made high explosives into went after he 
touched it off and blew a 3-foot deep crater in the dirt.)

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

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Orchid XP v7 wrote:
> Actually, anyone who's ever played with one of these will confirm a very 
> disturbing fact: Almost *everything* is slightly radioactive! Seriously. 
> Everything I put near the thing registered very slightly. Including my 
> lunch...

In the USA, it's illegal to build a nuclear reactor out of quarried 
rock, as the rock is more radioactive than the reactor is allowed to 
leak. Seems kind of silly to me.

M_a_r_c wrote:
 > One of the biggest lies from French authorities : "the Tchernobyl 
cloud did
 > not pass the French boundaries"

As I understand it, the disaster got noticed because the workers in the 
Swedish nuclear reactors were arriving more radioactive than they were 
leaving.

On the other hand, some level of radiation is actually even necessary 
for good health. So it's all in the dosage, really.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

Post a reply to this message

"Michael Raiford" <mra### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:471b6742@news.povray.org...
> > - Apparently if you mix amonia and some other compound together, the
> > resulting mixture explodes when it dries out. We smeared it over a
> > cardboard box in the garden. For some reason, it only ever exploded at
> > night... A succession of small pops and bangs.
>
> sounds like nitrogen triiodide. Contact explosive... supposedly fun
stuff..

Crackle powder (I think). We had great fun with that at university. Scatterd
some across the cmp sci main office floor. Was a thick pile carpet. For some
reason we weren't popular the next morning... *g*

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"Brian Elliott" <NotForSpam@AskIfUWant> wrote in message
news:471b6c5d$1@news.povray.org...

> Selecting from tables, their column definitions and table data are only a
> small part of getting the data and structure out:  I have to get the
entire
> application out.  I would also have to make SQL to recreate:
>
> Table type (heap, index-organised, cluster, partition) Definitions of all
> indexes and constraints on each table, foreign-key constraints to other
> tables, tablespace and storage info, remembering again to do the same for
> each of its indexes.
>
> Triggers on the tables -- PL/SQL code that fires before/after an
> insert/update/delete.
> Sequences, including the number they are now at. (So new sequences are
> created from that starting point instead of starting at one)
>
> Views -- named SQL that can be selected and joined as one uses a table in
> most places.
> The program code stored in PL/SQL functions, procedures and packages.
>
> Jobs.  Ugh, I know the least about these.  I'm sure OEM will have job
> schedules registered in the database engine.
>

Dunnon about Oracle, but in MS SQL, all of those are stored in tables as
well and are scriptable, providing you know the right tables.

Post a reply to this message

Gail Shaw wrote:
> Dunnon about Oracle, but in MS SQL, all of those are stored in tables as
> well and are scriptable, providing you know the right tables.

And to the extent they aren't, you don't have a relational database. Of 
course, now with some places doing things like storing non-SQL compiled 
code in the database, it's more difficult to make valid backups just by 
copying data without copying structure.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     Remember the good old days, when we
     used to complain about cryptography
     being export-restricted?

Post a reply to this message

"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message 
news:471b7099$1@news.povray.org...
> Michael Raiford wrote:
>> school campus heard the resulting bang.
>
> I had friends who worked at a science museum (the Franklin Institute) 
> giving lectures and such. One day Tony filled a 3-foot weather balloon 
> with hydrogen and oxygen, and put it on a long thread so it floated near 
> the top of the lecture hall. (Picture a stadium-seating huge room like you 
> see college lectures being given in in movies.) Then he points the 
> parabolic heat lamp at it and turns off all the switches.
>
> Kurt goes in, turns on all the lights, starts his lecture on liquid air. I 
> walk in, and Tony is in the back of the room, going "SHhh! Shhh!"
>
> About five minutes into the lecture, there's a kaBOOM that literally 
> cracks some of the windows.  Kurt jumps about three feet, looks around, 
> waves to Tony, and goes back to lecturing.
>
> (This is the same Tony that couldn't figure out where the cardboard 
> canister he'd stuffed home-made high explosives into went after he touched 
> it off and blew a 3-foot deep crater in the dirt.)

Two of my favourite things were tins of sodium hydroxide and rolls of 
aluminium foil.  Put together in water, they produced plenty of hydrogen, 
which I and a mate filled many balloons and garbage bags with.  Had to be 
careful, as it is highly exothermic and the mix can easily boil.  We used to 
tie sparklers to the necks, light them, and float them off.  The balloon 
would explode just as the sparkler got near the end of its burn.  Looked 
good at night.

I also used to make bangs with two large bolts, one large hexagonal nut and 
a lot of match-heads.  Half-screw one bolt into the nut, scrape the 
phosphorous from several matches into the well, screw in the other bolt, 
then throw it at a concrete surface or hit it end-on with a hammer.  Four or 
five heads was enough to make a bang.  Twenty matches was enough to make an 
air-splitting gunshot explosion.  On that occasion, one bolt completely 
stripped out of the thread and went so far from the point of impact that we 
never found it.

We were smart enough to duck behind a pile of rocks while it was still in 
midair.

And one strange thing:  Back when the flints on the sides of matchboxes were 
made more substantially than they are today.  Peel them off the sides of the 
matchbox.  Strip as much cardboard off their backs as you can, to get the 
brown flint/phosphor patch on the thinnest paper layer possible.  Place it 
face-down on a cold tin lid.  Burn it.  It fizzes a bit like a match head, 
but the flame is smoky and smelly.  Blow off any ash. You find an orangeish 
semi-liquid condensate on the lid.  Dip a forefinger tip in it, then rub 
your thumb and forefinger together.  White smoke rises from your fingers. 
In the dark, it glows when you do this.

-- 
Brian

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Gail Shaw wrote:

> Crackle powder (I think). We had great fun with that at university. Scatterd
> some across the cmp sci main office floor. Was a thick pile carpet. For some
> reason we weren't popular the next morning... *g*

And I thought you were such a *good* little girl... :-0

Post a reply to this message

Michael Raiford wrote:

>> - Apparently if you mix amonia and some other compound together, the 
>> resulting mixture explodes when it dries out. We smeared it over a 
>> cardboard box in the garden. For some reason, it only ever exploded at 
>> night... A succession of small pops and bangs.
> 
> sounds like nitrogen triiodide. Contact explosive... supposedly fun stuff..

Yeah - I recall iodine being involved...

>> - There's a trick you can do with (IIRC) hydrogen chloride. It absorbs 
>> water quite well. So if you will a bottle with hydrogen chloride and 
>> then put a tube into a tub of water, you get a little fountain inside 
>> the bottle as the pressure drops. For added amusement, add some 
>> indicator to the water. (I recall the blue liquid emerging in the 
>> bottle as a bright yellow fountain.)
> 
> I think I need a diagram to understand this one. the description of the 
> set up is a bit unclear.. Hmm.

Take a bottle of HCl gas with a cork and a straw. Insert the straw into 
a tub of water. The HCl is adsorbed by the water, causing the water to 
be sucked into the bottle forming a little fountain. If you add a pH 
indicator, you'll see the water go from 7 to (roughly) 3.

> Actually, I don't know if its the same for the UK, but in the US, 
> potassium permaganate is apparently (according to Wikipedia) considered 
> a drug precursor and is apparently difficult to get without going 
> through all sorts of DEA procedures and forms.

Apparently in the USA, so is LiOH... (How random is that? Drop some 
lithium into a vat of water and you have a controlled substance. Heh!)

Doesn't appear to be a problem in the UK.

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Darren New wrote:

> On the other hand, some level of radiation is actually even necessary 
> for good health. So it's all in the dosage, really.

"Oh well - a little water never hurt anyone."

"Yeah, but a lot can KILL ya!"

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