Interesting, looks like you know more about it than I do - does it just 
then relate to payment information and not personal data?

Jim

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>> It's not a case of law or not, it's the fact that you signed an agreement
>> with the company that gives you access to the internet.  If you don't 
>> agree
>> with their terms, then use another ISP, or if you can't find one that you
>> agree with then make your own ISP or don't use the internet.
>
>  That doesn't automatically mean that the police can go and do whatever
> it wants.

If the ISP agrees to it they can - the key point is that *you* don't have to 
agree, because you've already handed over that responsibility to your ISP 
when you signed up.

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scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote:
> If the ISP agrees to it they can

  I would like to see the law which says this.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Why do you need a law to allow a company to voluntarily supply data to the 
police?  If the police wanted to force data unwillingly from the company, 
then sure...

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Warp wrote:
> scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote:
>> If the ISP agrees to it they can
> 
>   I would like to see the law which says this.

It's the law that says something along the lines of 'legally binding 
business contracts are legally binding'.  Unless specifically stated 
otherwise to the contrary, you can in theory agree to anything and it's 
legal.  It doesn't need a law to say 'you can do this', it needs a law 
to say 'you CAN'T do this'.

-- 
Tim Cook
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-empyrean

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Warp wrote:
> scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote:
>> If the ISP agrees to it they can
> 
>   I would like to see the law which says this.
> 

Check your User Agreement and search procedures in your country. The
agreement, at least the ones from ISPs I've used, allows them to do what
ever they want with the data as long as it is not identifiable, or to
turn the data over to law enforcement. Search procedure in the USA
allows the 'inhabitant' to authorize a search. Inhabitant might be a bad
word for this, but a house sitter can allow the police to search a house
not owned by them because they are the current guardian of that house. A
renter or a land lord can authorize the search an apartment. Since the
ISP is the guardian of the data on their servers, they would have the
option of turning it over to police within what ever terms they set up
in their user agreement.

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On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:56:33 +0200, scott wrote:

> the key point is that *you* don't have to agree,

Actually, the ISPs I have dealt with may even have explicitly included 
that in their terms of service - that the ISP will comply with legal 
requests from law enforcement, and that your use of the service 
constitutes agreement with this policy.

Jim

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scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote:
> Why do you need a law to allow a company to voluntarily supply data to the 
> police?  If the police wanted to force data unwillingly from the company, 
> then sure...

  Because the data is used without the person's consent.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Sabrina Kilian <"ykgp at vtSPAM.edu"> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> wrote:
> >> If the ISP agrees to it they can
> > 
> >   I would like to see the law which says this.
> > 

> Check your User Agreement and search procedures in your country. The
> agreement, at least the ones from ISPs I've used, allows them to do what
> ever they want with the data as long as it is not identifiable, or to
> turn the data over to law enforcement.

  I wasn't asking what the ISP can do. I was asking what the police can do.
In most countries there are limits on how the police can spy on people (so
that the evidence is valid in court).

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> and that your use of the service 
> constitutes agreement with this policy.

  No agreement can go against the law. At least not here.

  For example, if a license agreement of a software says that you cannot
make backup copies of it, that's just not valid. You can accept the license
agreement and still make backup copies. They have nothing against you.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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