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"jr" <cre### [at] gmail com> wrote:
> am open to, and interested in, concrete suggestions to improve the photon
> documentation, wrt the "interplay" of features, and all touched on in these two
> threads; posted here or sent (pls use "helpful" subject line ;-)).
The best thing, IMHO, is for someone knowledgeable in the area, or who has the
patience and tenacity to work it out - to write a script / macro whatever -
that takes the user input and properly outputs what will happen.
An accurate flowchart is a lot better than written documentation that has to be
interpreted.
In this case where there seems to be a lot of if/then/else, then a few lines of
code is worth 10 pages of documentation that the user still has to read,
interpret, comprehend, and then implement in their own code.
Don't document it. Write the code to DO the thing. Then anyone can understand
it, or barring that, make practical use of it.
- BE
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"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > > [Kenneth wrote:]
> > > Would these be more appropriate for the docs' default?:
> > > target 1.0 When 'spacing' is used in the global photons block
> > > target on When 'count' is used in the global photons block
>
> why 'on' ??
> (do you actually want to add further "ambiguities" to the parsing ?)
"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> > > Kenneth wrote:]
> > > Would these be more appropriate for the docs' default?:
> > > target 1.0 When 'spacing' is used in the global photons block
> > > target on When 'count' is used in the global photons block
>
> why 'on' ??
> (do you actually want to add further "ambiguities" to the parsing ?
Sorry to say that I did not do much testing of 'target' behavior until now-- and
it is also a bit confusing to me.
Given that the docs say that the default for an object is 'target 1.0'-- which
should mean ON as I understand it (when *either* 'count' or 'spacing' is used in
the global photons block, both of which I tested) -- here are my current
parse/render results in both 3.7 and 3.8 beta 1. I used my test code posted
earlier.
photons{} -- an empty photon block-- the default for 'target' is actually OFF,
not ON.
With NO photons block in an object, the default is likewise OFF, not ON.
photons{target} -- neither 1.0 nor ON explicitly stated-- the object *is* a
photon target, as expected from the explicit use of the keyword
photons{target 1.0} or photons{target on} -- likewise ON as expected.
So it seems that the target default is OFF for an object-- unless I am
completely mistaken as the what 'default of target 1.0' means in the docs (other
than as an explicit 'spacing divisor').
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hi,
"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > > Kenneth wrote:]
> > > > Would these be more appropriate for the docs' default?:
> > > > target 1.0 When 'spacing' is used in the global photons block
> > > > target on When 'count' is used in the global photons block
> >
> > why 'on' ??
> > (do you actually want to add further "ambiguities" to the parsing ?
>
> Sorry to say that I did not do much testing of 'target' behavior until now-- and
> it is also a bit confusing to me.
>
> Given that the docs say that the default for an object is 'target 1.0'-- which
> should mean ON as I understand it (when *either* 'count' or 'spacing' is used ...
"The keyword target makes this object a target." note, keyword alone.
<wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Photons#Photon_Global_Settings>
as I wrote, the syntax diagram says 'target [float]', a value of '1.0' simply
ensures (I think) that "nothing changes" by default wrt photon spacing.
> ...
> So it seems that the target default is OFF for an object-- unless I am
> completely mistaken as the what 'default of target 1.0' means in the docs (other
> than as an explicit 'spacing divisor').
there isn't a photons "default" either w/out corresponding block, iiuc. unsure
how 'collect' plays with 'target', but, again aiui, 'refraction' and
'reflection' do not require the object to be a target.
also, fwiw, the documentation calls it a "spacing multiplier", rather than
"divisor". luckily, with '1.0', no difference :-).
regards, jr.
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"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> "The keyword target makes this object a target." note, keyword alone.
> <wiki.povray.org/content/Reference:Photons#Photon_Global_Settings>
You're right about that. Although-- at the risk of sounding pedantic-- the
'default' block in the docs does not actually state it in an immediately useful
way. Instead, the only given default for target is 'target 1.0'. In my ideal
world, I wish it was clearer:
target: OFF when no explicit target keyword is specified
target spacing: 1.0
>
> as I wrote, the syntax diagram says 'target [float]', a value of '1.0' simply
> ensures (I think) that "nothing changes" by default wrt photon spacing.
Yes, that's my understanding as well, and tests confirm it.
> but, again aiui, 'refraction' and
> 'reflection' do not require the object to be a target.
Actually, an explicit 'target' *is* required (if my tests are any indication.)
In my test code earlier, in the photon blocks, use 'refraction on' in both the
light_source and the translucent box. Then comment-out 'target' in the
translucent box. The result: no refraction effects.
>
> also, fwiw, the documentation calls it a "spacing multiplier", rather than
> "divisor". luckily, with '1.0', no difference :-).
>
Ah, yes, you're correct. I was thinking in terms of 'number' of photons rather
than spacing:
target 0.5-- the spacing between photons is reduced by half...whereas the number
of photons is...either doubled or quadrupled(?)-- like spacing/2
(or spacing/4 ?)
Sorry for the confusion.
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I had a window of time today, and set The AI to work on this.
I have diagrams and charts and flowcharts and code.
Still need to go through it all and test it out.
I can post or forward the zips if you'd like.
- BE
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"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> I was thinking in terms of 'number' of photons rather
> than spacing:
>
> target 0.5-- the spacing between photons is reduced by half...whereas the number
> of photons is...either doubled or quadrupled(?)-- like spacing/2
> (or spacing/4 ?)
>
"...like spacing/2 or spacing/4" ???
Please ignore that bad analogy and arithmetic-- a result of 'over-thinking' :-[
Post a reply to this message
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hi,
"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > I was thinking in terms of 'number' of photons rather
> > than spacing:
> > target 0.5-- the spacing between photons is reduced by half...whereas the number
> > of photons is...either doubled or quadrupled(?)-- like spacing/2
> > (or spacing/4 ?)
>
> "...like spacing/2 or spacing/4" ???
> Please ignore that bad analogy and arithmetic-- a result of 'over-thinking' :-[
no worries (hope that sort of thing doesn't keep you awake at night </grin>).
agree re the 'target', its description, will do that in the coming days. how do
you fancy "having a go" at turning the "Perfect Mirror" thread in to a "FAQ"
item ? (or a draft for an added "Tip" based on your observations ?)
regards, jr.
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hi,
"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> I had a window of time today, and set The AI to work on this.
>
> I have diagrams and charts and flowcharts and code.
>
> Still need to go through it all and test it out.
> I can post or forward the zips if you'd like.
keep "us" in the loop please, wrt testing etc.
regards, jr.
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"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> keep "us" in the loop please, wrt testing etc.
I have a lot of running around to do, so I'll only be able to sporadically play
with the output.
I'll post a zip of all the files that were generated, and maybe we can all
run/edit/debug the code, etc. and come up with something that makes sense.
One thing that I did was have it generate ALL the possible permutations of light
source and object, and I would suggest that part of the distribution be a scene
that renders all the permutations. That ought to put an end to any questions
about how povray actually operates.
- BE
Post a reply to this message
Attachments:
Download 'photons.zip' (1058 KB)
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hi,
"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> ...
> One thing that I did was have it generate ALL the possible permutations of light
> source and object, and I would suggest that part of the distribution be a scene
> that renders all the permutations. That ought to put an end to any questions
> about how povray actually operates.
yes agree, a simple, "good" .pov/.ini combo which generates a corresponding set
of images would be very useful to have. (if we had one "in hand", we could
start "badgering" Chris :-))
regards, jr.
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