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From: Ton
Subject: povray vs uberpov am3
Date: 14 Sep 2020 08:45:00
Message: <web.5f5f2ce827df3c2dd797883e0@news.povray.org>
Hello everybody,

when I use am3 (stochastic anti-aliasing) in the latest version (10064738), it
is about 5 times slower then in uberpov:

Persistence of Vision(tm) Ray Tracer Version 3.8.0-x.10064738.unofficial (g++ 7
@ x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
Render Time:
  Photon Time:      No photons
  Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
  Trace Time:       0 hours 20 minutes  4 seconds (1204.944 seconds)
              using 4 thread(s) with 4542.093 CPU-seconds total

UberPOV Raytracer Version 1.37.1.0-beta.10 (g++ 7 @ x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
Render Time:
  Photon Time:      No photons
  Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
  Trace Time:       0 hours  3 minutes 52 seconds (232.382 seconds)
              using 4 thread(s) with 907.615 CPU-seconds total

Command line is:
povray +d +p +q9 +am3 +a0.1 +ac0.9 +r6 AntiAliasingTest.pov
uberpov +d +p +q9 +am3 +a0.1 +ac0.9 +r6 AntiAliasingTest.pov

Does anybody have a clue why povray is so much slower?

Cheers
Ton


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: povray vs uberpov am3
Date: 14 Sep 2020 16:35:57
Message: <5f5f9bed$1@news.povray.org>
On 9/14/20 4:42 AM, Ton wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> when I use am3 (stochastic anti-aliasing) in the latest version (10064738), it
> is about 5 times slower then in uberpov:
> 
> Persistence of Vision(tm) Ray Tracer Version 3.8.0-x.10064738.unofficial (g++ 7
> @ x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
> Render Time:
>    Photon Time:      No photons
>    Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
>    Trace Time:       0 hours 20 minutes  4 seconds (1204.944 seconds)
>                using 4 thread(s) with 4542.093 CPU-seconds total
> 
> UberPOV Raytracer Version 1.37.1.0-beta.10 (g++ 7 @ x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
> Render Time:
>    Photon Time:      No photons
>    Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
>    Trace Time:       0 hours  3 minutes 52 seconds (232.382 seconds)
>                using 4 thread(s) with 907.615 CPU-seconds total
> 
> Command line is:
> povray +d +p +q9 +am3 +a0.1 +ac0.9 +r6 AntiAliasingTest.pov
> uberpov +d +p +q9 +am3 +a0.1 +ac0.9 +r6 AntiAliasingTest.pov
> 
> Does anybody have a clue why povray is so much slower?
> 
> Cheers
> Ton
> 

Are the results more or less similar?

I know uber differs in code structure. I've myself run across an am3 
case in v3.8 where the run time - on a solid color change - increased 
100x. Not yet dug into the latter. Beyond that, no idea.

If the AntiAliasingTest.pov scene is relatively small and self 
contained, could you post a copy? I'll at least put it in my issues 
directory, though who knows when I might take a look at it.

Bill P.


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From: Ton
Subject: Re: povray vs uberpov am3
Date: 14 Sep 2020 21:30:07
Message: <web.5f5fe019aa461a8cd797883e0@news.povray.org>
William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>
> Are the results more or less similar?
>
> I know uber differs in code structure. I've myself run across an am3
> case in v3.8 where the run time - on a solid color change - increased
> 100x. Not yet dug into the latter. Beyond that, no idea.
>
> If the AntiAliasingTest.pov scene is relatively small and self
> contained, could you post a copy? I'll at least put it in my issues
> directory, though who knows when I might take a look at it.
>
> Bill P.

Wow, a hundred times slower, and I was complaining about 5 times!

Here is my little test file:
#version 3.7;

global_settings
{
    assumed_gamma 1
    noise_generator 2
}
background
{
    color srgb <0, 0, 0>
}

union
{
    #for (I, -25, 25, 1)
        cylinder
        {
            <-20, 0, 0>, <20, 0, I>, 0.01
        }
    #end
    pigment
    {
        color srgb<1, 1, 1>
    }
}

light_source
{
    <25, 8, 0>, rgb<1, 1, 1>
}

camera
{
   location <25, 8, 0>
   right <image_width / image_height, 0, 0>
   look_at <12, 0, 0>
}

Cheers
Ton


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From: Ash Holsenback
Subject: Re: povray vs uberpov am3
Date: 15 Sep 2020 14:25:53
Message: <5f60cef1$1@news.povray.org>
On 9/14/20 12:35 PM, William F Pokorny wrote:
> On 9/14/20 4:42 AM, Ton wrote:
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> when I use am3 (stochastic anti-aliasing) in the latest version 
>> (10064738), it
>> is about 5 times slower then in uberpov:
>>
>> Persistence of Vision(tm) Ray Tracer Version 
>> 3.8.0-x.10064738.unofficial (g++ 7
>> @ x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
>> Render Time:
>>    Photon Time:      No photons
>>    Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
>>    Trace Time:       0 hours 20 minutes  4 seconds (1204.944 seconds)
>>                using 4 thread(s) with 4542.093 CPU-seconds total
>>
>> UberPOV Raytracer Version 1.37.1.0-beta.10 (g++ 7 @ x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
>> Render Time:
>>    Photon Time:      No photons
>>    Radiosity Time:   No radiosity
>>    Trace Time:       0 hours  3 minutes 52 seconds (232.382 seconds)
>>                using 4 thread(s) with 907.615 CPU-seconds total
>>
>> Command line is:
>> povray +d +p +q9 +am3 +a0.1 +ac0.9 +r6 AntiAliasingTest.pov
>> uberpov +d +p +q9 +am3 +a0.1 +ac0.9 +r6 AntiAliasingTest.pov
>>
>> Does anybody have a clue why povray is so much slower?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Ton
>>
> 
> Are the results more or less similar?
> 
> I know uber differs in code structure. I've myself run across an am3 
> case in v3.8 where the run time - on a solid color change - increased 
> 100x. Not yet dug into the latter. Beyond that, no idea.
> 
> If the AntiAliasingTest.pov scene is relatively small and self 
> contained, could you post a copy? I'll at least put it in my issues 
> directory, though who knows when I might take a look at it.
> 
> Bill P.

i've been using the am3 anti-aliasing in POV-Ray 3.8.0-alpha.10064268 in 
conjunction with area lights... i'm able to use adaptive 0 then use am3 
to cleanup edges etc... so i'd appreciate you finding /some/ time to see 
if some speed gains can be found


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: povray vs uberpov am3
Date: 15 Sep 2020 22:25:00
Message: <web.5f613e1caa461a8cd98418910@news.povray.org>
"Ton" <ton### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

>
> Wow, a hundred times slower, and I was complaining about 5 times!
>
> Here is my little test file:
[snip}

on Windows 7...
I don't know if this is useful, but I ran your test scene in three different
version of POV-Ray, using your command-line switches. 800 X 600 render.

1) the experimental build you used (Windows version) which is the most recent--
v3.8.0x.10064738+av694

     render time: 19 seconds

2) the latest development build-- v3.8.0-alpha.10064268+av691

     render time: 23 seconds

3) v3.7.1-beta 9 (which isn't really useful as a comparison-- I had to delete
"ac0.9" from the command line, as this version didn't recognize it)

     render time: 93 seconds

The two 3.8.0 versions produce relatively close render times in Windows... so it
seems that the LONG render time might be Linux-specific(?)


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From: Ash Holsenback
Subject: Re: povray vs uberpov am3
Date: 15 Sep 2020 23:38:40
Message: <5f615080$1@news.povray.org>
On 9/15/20 6:20 PM, Kenneth wrote:
> "Ton" <ton### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> 
>>
>> Wow, a hundred times slower, and I was complaining about 5 times!
>>
>> Here is my little test file:
> [snip}
> 
> on Windows 7...
> I don't know if this is useful, but I ran your test scene in three different
> version of POV-Ray, using your command-line switches. 800 X 600 render.
> 
> 1) the experimental build you used (Windows version) which is the most recent--
> v3.8.0x.10064738+av694
> 
>       render time: 19 seconds
> 
> 2) the latest development build-- v3.8.0-alpha.10064268+av691
> 
>       render time: 23 seconds
> 
> 3) v3.7.1-beta 9 (which isn't really useful as a comparison-- I had to delete
> "ac0.9" from the command line, as this version didn't recognize it)
> 
>       render time: 93 seconds
> 
> The two 3.8.0 versions produce relatively close render times in Windows... so it
> seems that the LONG render time might be Linux-specific(?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
linux POV-Ray 3.8.0-alpha.10064268 at 800 x 600 ... 16.116 seconds


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From: Ash Holsenback
Subject: Re: povray vs uberpov am3
Date: 15 Sep 2020 23:44:23
Message: <5f6151d7$1@news.povray.org>
On 9/15/20 7:38 PM, Ash Holsenback wrote:
> On 9/15/20 6:20 PM, Kenneth wrote:
>> "Ton" <ton### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Wow, a hundred times slower, and I was complaining about 5 times!
>>>
>>> Here is my little test file:
>> [snip}
>>
>> on Windows 7...
>> I don't know if this is useful, but I ran your test scene in three 
>> different
>> version of POV-Ray, using your command-line switches. 800 X 600 render.
>>
>> 1) the experimental build you used (Windows version) which is the most 
>> recent--
>> v3.8.0x.10064738+av694
>>
>>       render time: 19 seconds
>>
>> 2) the latest development build-- v3.8.0-alpha.10064268+av691
>>
>>       render time: 23 seconds
>>
>> 3) v3.7.1-beta 9 (which isn't really useful as a comparison-- I had to 
>> delete
>> "ac0.9" from the command line, as this version didn't recognize it)
>>
>>       render time: 93 seconds
>>
>> The two 3.8.0 versions produce relatively close render times in 
>> Windows... so it
>> seems that the LONG render time might be Linux-specific(?)
>>
>>
>>
>>
> linux POV-Ray 3.8.0-alpha.10064268 at 800 x 600 ... 16.116 seconds

when i change version to 3.8 (from 3.7) in the supplied test file... 
it's consistently 3 seconds faster


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: povray vs uberpov am3
Date: 16 Sep 2020 07:08:41
Message: <5f61b9f9@news.povray.org>
On 9/14/20 5:26 PM, Ton wrote:
> William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>>
>> Are the results more or less similar?
>>
>> I know uber differs in code structure. I've myself run across an am3
>> case in v3.8 where the run time - on a solid color change - increased
>> 100x. Not yet dug into the latter. Beyond that, no idea.
>>
>> If the AntiAliasingTest.pov scene is relatively small and self
>> contained, could you post a copy? I'll at least put it in my issues
>> directory, though who knows when I might take a look at it.
>>
>> Bill P.
> 
> Wow, a hundred times slower, and I was complaining about 5 times!
> 
> Here is my little test file:
...
> 

Had to recompile my uberpov. The system libraries had changed since I 
last compiled. Compiling uber now a bit of a pain as a good many code 
and header updates are needed...

Whining ahead of my first morning coffee I guess. :-)

I'll post an image to binary.images, but answering my initial question - 
the results are not similar. p380 is am3 working better with your flag 
set than is uberpov. This I believe explains the run time difference(1).

Running compiles of the latest commit of both versions, I see the 
following slow down uber to v3.8:

2.4 -> 13.02 ---> 442.50%

I also see a bug because in v3.8 we are getting the am3 stats:

...Samples: 0   Smpls/Pxl: 0.00

where we should see >0 samples and samples/pixel >1.0.

(Jim, I see a slight difference v3.7 to v3.8 scene version too 0.5% or 
so - not sure what's up there. For performance I run single threaded. 
I'd need to do runs forcing longer run times to be sure how real that 
difference is I guess - another day perhaps)

Bill P.

(1) - I have a mental itch there was some difference in flag usage 
between uberpov and the initial v3.8 implementation - but it's just not 
coming to me. Anyone else recall something? Looking at the commit for 
v3.8 where am3 came in, it did have additional changes to the base over 
uberpov in planning for better interaction with other features like 
media. What has or has not been done in that respect for am3 support I 
do not know.


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: povray vs uberpov am3
Date: 17 Sep 2020 16:25:01
Message: <web.5f638c34aa461a8cd98418910@news.povray.org>
in Windows 7--
I finally downloaded UberPOV from Github after all these years(!), to give it a
try-- the 'plug-in' version that runs within v3.7.0. But I'm running into
problems with Ton's test scene, specifically his command-line settings of
           +d +p +q9 +am3 +a0.1 +ac0.9 +r6

The "+ac.0.9" command is not being recognized. (And yes, I specified #version
3.8 in the test scene itself, in global_settings). That seems strange, as Ton
gets his scene to work in UberPOV...at least in Linux.

The version of UberPOV I'm using is the 'latest' v1.37 (as of late 2016 I
think). Within v3.7.0, it actually shows up as "v3.8.0-alpha.9811560+av591"

But there is also a stand-alone version of UberPOV with its own installer that
Clipka created at an earlier date. I haven't tried that one yet.

Is there an operational difference between the plug-in version I'm using and the
stand-alone version, concerning the "ac0.9" command?


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: povray vs uberpov am3
Date: 17 Sep 2020 17:55:24
Message: <5f63a30c$1@news.povray.org>
Le 2020-09-17 à 12:21, Kenneth a écrit :
> in Windows 7--
> I finally downloaded UberPOV from Github after all these years(!), to give it a
> try-- the 'plug-in' version that runs within v3.7.0. But I'm running into
> problems with Ton's test scene, specifically his command-line settings of
>             +d +p +q9 +am3 +a0.1 +ac0.9 +r6
> 
> The "+ac.0.9" command is not being recognized. (And yes, I specified #version
> 3.8 in the test scene itself, in global_settings). That seems strange, as Ton
> gets his scene to work in UberPOV...at least in Linux.
> 
> The version of UberPOV I'm using is the 'latest' v1.37 (as of late 2016 I
> think). Within v3.7.0, it actually shows up as "v3.8.0-alpha.9811560+av591"
> 
> But there is also a stand-alone version of UberPOV with its own installer that
> Clipka created at an earlier date. I haven't tried that one yet.
> 
> Is there an operational difference between the plug-in version I'm using and the
> stand-alone version, concerning the "ac0.9" command?
> 
> 
> 

The «plugin» version need to reside in a sub-folder of another 
installation. It piggy back on another installed version.

The «stand alone» is similar but come with all the other files of a 
standard version. As the stand alone  version is older, it may contain 
some bugs that where fixed in the later version, and lack some 
optimizations and features.

You may want to install the standalone version, then, replace the 
executable with the latest version.


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