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> For anyone who wishes to accept it.
>
> In one of my favorite books (Web of Angels, John M. Ford - 1980) the author
> posits two types of history-changing artefacts that might be found.
>
> The first type, he names the Antikythera (a reference to the Antikythera
> mechanism)
>
> The Antikythera is an artefact which re-defines the technological capabilities
> or scientific prowess of an ancient civilization.
>
> The second type, he calls the Ozymandias. An Ozymandias is an artefact
> discovered in the ruins of an ancient civilization which could not possibly have
> come from that civilization. The name comes from the poem by Percy Bisshe
> Shelley, because "Nothing beside remains"
>
> The existence of an Ozymandias ostensibly points to an even older civilization
> of which there is no previous record.
>
> So the challenge, for anyone who cares to attempt it, is to come up with an
> artefact of one type or the other and put it in a suitable context.
>
> Regards,
> A.D.B.
>
> P.S. Web of Angels is an excellent read, if you can find a copy. It's arguably
> the earliest example of Cyberpunk, prefiguring Gibson by three years, and I love
> the idea of the galaxy-spanning computer network, which he calls The Web.
>
>
Real life Ozymandias examples are some small figurines shaped like
modern days jet fighters found in Maya and Aztec ruins. Testing them in
wind tunnels reveal that they are stable in trans-sonic and super-sonic
speeds.
Another example is an old iron hammer found incased in a large rock that
is so old that part of it's handle have started to turn into coal. It's
age is estimated to be over 250000000 years.
Alain
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hi,
On 07/06/2016 13:07, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> would the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_pillar_of_Delhi count as an
>> "ozymandia"? not that Dehli is ruined (yet).
> Not any more I think.
I once read that for every credibility gap there's a gullibility fill,
this does it for me: "When informed by an interviewer, in 1974, that the
column was not in fact rust-free, and that its method of construction
was well understood, von Däniken responded that he no longer considered
the pillar or its creation to be a mystery."
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On 6/7/2016 10:04 PM, jr wrote:
> von Däniken
That's the man who found ancient stones in Peru, with carvings of men
using telescopes, detailed world maps, and advanced medical operations,
all beyond the knowledge of ancient Peruvians. But the PBS television
series Nova determined that the stones were modern, and located the
potter who made them. This potter makes stones daily and sells them to
tourists. Däniken had visited the potter and examined the stones
himself, but he didn't mention this in his book.
From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken#Errors_and_omissions
And I remember it from the time.
A snake oil salesman.
--
Regards
Stephen
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Alain <kua### [at] videotron ca> wrote:
> > For anyone who wishes to accept it.
> >
> > In one of my favorite books (Web of Angels, John M. Ford - 1980) the author
> > posits two types of history-changing artefacts that might be found.
> >
> > The first type, he names the Antikythera (a reference to the Antikythera
> > mechanism)
> >
> > The Antikythera is an artefact which re-defines the technological capabilities
> > or scientific prowess of an ancient civilization.
> >
> > The second type, he calls the Ozymandias. An Ozymandias is an artefact
> > discovered in the ruins of an ancient civilization which could not possibly have
> > come from that civilization. The name comes from the poem by Percy Bisshe
> > Shelley, because "Nothing beside remains"
> >
> > The existence of an Ozymandias ostensibly points to an even older civilization
> > of which there is no previous record.
> >
> > So the challenge, for anyone who cares to attempt it, is to come up with an
> > artefact of one type or the other and put it in a suitable context.
> >
> > Regards,
> > A.D.B.
> >
> > P.S. Web of Angels is an excellent read, if you can find a copy. It's arguably
> > the earliest example of Cyberpunk, prefiguring Gibson by three years, and I love
> > the idea of the galaxy-spanning computer network, which he calls The Web.
> >
> >
>
> Real life Ozymandias examples are some small figurines shaped like
> modern days jet fighters found in Maya and Aztec ruins. Testing them in
> wind tunnels reveal that they are stable in trans-sonic and super-sonic
> speeds.
> Another example is an old iron hammer found incased in a large rock that
> is so old that part of it's handle have started to turn into coal. It's
> age is estimated to be over 250000000 years.
>
>
> Alain
the London Hammer has been explained: http://paleo.cc/paluxy/hammer.htm
As for the Tolima figurines, when they "tested" them, they modified the
structure to remove pieces that obviously wouldn't work.
> I once read that for every credibility gap there's a gullibility fill,
> this does it for me: "When informed by an interviewer, in 1974, that the
> column was not in fact rust-free, and that its method of construction
> was well understood, von Däniken responded that he no longer considered
> the pillar or its creation to be a mystery."
Which degrades it from Ozymandias to Antikythera, or less.
This isn't supposed to be a thread about supposed real-life examples. I was
trying to spark the creative process.
Here's another example from my own imagination:
Yggdrasil Complex is a decaying star-ladder that has been overgrown to the point
that it resembles a gigantic tree. Depending on whether the surrounding natives
are descendants of the builders or immigrants, it could be either Type 1 or Type
2.
It's difficult to convey the story of an object in just one image, I suppose,
but that could be part of the challenge.
Regards,
A.D.B.
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On 07/06/2016 22:24, Stephen wrote:
>> von
> A snake oil salesman.
not disagreeing. still, some of the "evidence" presented by such people
(explorers of sorts) can raise interesting questions.
wrt the column, yes, odds are that the material is the result of one
artisan's lucky discovery and fit scientific view and chronology, and
convinced von Däniken; I think it's older.
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"Anthony D. Baye" <Sha### [at] spamnomorehotmailcom> wrote:
> For anyone who wishes to accept it.
>
> In one of my favorite books (Web of Angels, John M. Ford - 1980) the author
> posits two types of history-changing artefacts that might be found.
>
> The first type, he names the Antikythera (a reference to the Antikythera
> mechanism)
>
> The Antikythera is an artefact which re-defines the technological capabilities
> or scientific prowess of an ancient civilization.
>
> The second type, he calls the Ozymandias. An Ozymandias is an artefact
> discovered in the ruins of an ancient civilization which could not possibly have
> come from that civilization. The name comes from the poem by Percy Bisshe
> Shelley, because "Nothing beside remains"
>
> The existence of an Ozymandias ostensibly points to an even older civilization
> of which there is no previous record.
>
> So the challenge, for anyone who cares to attempt it, is to come up with an
> artefact of one type or the other and put it in a suitable context.
>
> Regards,
> A.D.B.
>
> P.S. Web of Angels is an excellent read, if you can find a copy. It's arguably
> the earliest example of Cyberpunk, prefiguring Gibson by three years, and I love
> the idea of the galaxy-spanning computer network, which he calls The Web.
http://documentaries.org/cid-films/dragons-of-jim-green/
not a known relative, even tho he has my name.
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On 8-6-2016 0:21, jr wrote:
> On 07/06/2016 22:24, Stephen wrote:
>>> von
>> A snake oil salesman.
>
> not disagreeing. still, some of the "evidence" presented by such people
> (explorers of sorts) can raise interesting questions.
>
> wrt the column, yes, odds are that the material is the result of one
> artisan's lucky discovery and fit scientific view and chronology, and
> convinced von Däniken; I think it's older.
>
Chance discovery indeed, like pizza ;-) I am waiting for the discovery
of a wheel used by Neanderthals.
--
Thomas
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Am 07.06.2016 um 18:02 schrieb Stephen:
> On 6/7/2016 4:18 PM, Anthony D. Baye wrote:
>> I had an idea for a precursor portal system composed of crystalline
>> Doorways.
>> The Doorways are not gates, in themselves, but anchor-points. The
>> idea was that
>> there is really only one "Gate" device, which is so advanced that it
>> is not only
>> sentient, but also possesses Intellectus w/regards to all the anchor
>> points in
>> the network.
>>
>> The Doorways themselves aren't built so much as grown.
>
>
> Reminds me of the portal animation Rune posted a while ago.
>
> http://runevision.com/3d/anims/wormhole_portal.mpg
BTW, bad news from scientists for fans of wormholes: According to modern
theories, wormholes are conceivable, but it seems their passageway would
continually extend in length, and happen to do so at -- well, guess what
-- the speed of light.
So no wormhole-based FTL travel -- sorry folks.
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Am 07.06.2016 um 23:24 schrieb Stephen:
> On 6/7/2016 10:04 PM, jr wrote:
>> von Däniken
...
> A snake oil salesman.
Not really. He's not selling cure-alls, just curious stories.
He's more like one of those televangelists. Maybe a tad less dangerous
because he doesn't seem to bundle his tales with any moral code.
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Le 08/06/2016 à 14:18, clipka a écrit :
> Am 07.06.2016 um 18:02 schrieb Stephen:
>> On 6/7/2016 4:18 PM, Anthony D. Baye wrote:
>>> I had an idea for a precursor portal system composed of crystalline
>>> Doorways.
>>> The Doorways are not gates, in themselves, but anchor-points. The
>>> idea was that
>>> there is really only one "Gate" device, which is so advanced that it
>>> is not only
>>> sentient, but also possesses Intellectus w/regards to all the anchor
>>> points in
>>> the network.
>>>
>>> The Doorways themselves aren't built so much as grown.
>>
>>
>> Reminds me of the portal animation Rune posted a while ago.
>>
>> http://runevision.com/3d/anims/wormhole_portal.mpg
>
> BTW, bad news from scientists for fans of wormholes: According to modern
> theories, wormholes are conceivable, but it seems their passageway would
> continually extend in length, and happen to do so at -- well, guess what
> -- the speed of light.
>
> So no wormhole-based FTL travel -- sorry folks.
>
But, what if, we create a sequence of wormhole, in the vicinity of a
wormhole-platform.
On May 2017, creation of first wormhole, aimed to alpha centaury
(distance : 4 light-years)
On July 2017, creation of another, same target
and so on, every two months.
In May 2021, travelers to alpha centaury took the first wormhole. Given
that the sun-earth distance is about 8 minutes, they probably have about
fifteen minutes to jump in and out. (or rather: twice 4 minutes, with a
banned intermediate period of 12 minutes: too near the star)
The rescue team can use the same windows on the second wormhole in July
2017.
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