Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> I was talking about text, the h1 tag in fact.  You then starts talking about
> images making it look like I talked about images.

  *sigh*

  I'm bored.

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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On 3 Sep 2002 13:43:56 -0400, Warp wrote:
> all. So what if it might break the limits between structure and layout?
> Who cares? Only purists do.

Only people who wanted to have some use for the content absent the layout
do.  If that makes me a purist, so be it.  There's nothing inherent in 
text that should make it impossible to skip all the pretty formatting.

Here's my position on the matter: if your page is impossible to read in 
Lynx or Emacs w3, and the content isn't primarily audio or graphical in
nature, chances are you aren't trying hard enough.  The standards have
been written with the ability to fall back in mind; the difference between
a good web designer and just another webmonkey is the ability to take 
advantage of that.

-- 
#macro R(L P)sphere{L F}cylinder{L P F}#end#macro P(V)merge{R(z+a z)R(-z a-z)R(a
-z-z-z a+z)torus{1F clipped_by{plane{a 0}}}translate V}#end#macro Z(a F T)merge{
P(z+a)P(z-a)R(-z-z-x a)pigment{rgbt 1}hollow interior{media{emission T}}finish{
reflection.1}}#end Z(-x-x.2y)Z(-x-x.4x)camera{location z*-10rotate x*90}

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ABX wrote:
> On 29 Aug 2002 14:07:27 -0400, Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> 
>>Any opinions?
> 
> 
> My opinion is that this whole thread sounds interesting but sad for community.
> Personally I don't like when people not agree so much becouse it can influence
> cooperation :-(
> 
> ABX

It's been an amazing thread and has gotten totally out of control and 
off-topic.
I rarely post unless I feel I can help someone (usually in the Linux 
dept) or
if I can help shed some light on the conversation. I'm a POV-Ray newbie so I
feel I'm not qualified to help people with POV related questions yet, 
but I'm
working on it ;)

When I did make a post in an attempt to clarify a point, the reply I 
received
was insulting. That made me depressed about the POV newsgroups and the
community atmosphere (or lack of) resulting in this thread. I kind of feel
bad for Warp who spent a bunch of his time fixing up the VFAQ, asking for
opinions on the changes, then getting flamed to death :(  For the record
Warp, the changes look good!

Hopefully, people can stop arguing about semantics, let this thread die and
get back to POVing!

-Roz

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Ron Parker <ron### [at] povrayorg> wrote:
> Here's my position on the matter: if your page is impossible to read in 
> Lynx or Emacs w3, and the content isn't primarily audio or graphical in
> nature, chances are you aren't trying hard enough.

  (By the way, I just checked and the Q&T pages look pretty good with lynx
and w3m.)

-- 
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}//  - Warp -

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Xplo Eristotle <xpl### [at] infomagicnet> wrote:
> It's just that every once in a while 
> Thorsten decides to be an arrogant asshole about something he claims to 
> understand, but doesn't.

  Could we stop these personal attacks and go back to civilized conversation?
Even if we have differing views about things, that doesn't mean we should be
rude and insulting.

-- 
#macro N(D)#if(D>99)cylinder{M()#local D=div(D,104);M().5,2pigment{rgb M()}}
N(D)#end#end#macro M()<mod(D,13)-6mod(div(D,13)8)-3,10>#end blob{
N(11117333955)N(4254934330)N(3900569407)N(7382340)N(3358)N(970)}//  - Warp -

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On Tue, 03 Sep 2002 12:24:51 -0700, Xplo Eristotle
<xpl### [at] infomagicnet> wrote:

>In defense of these groups, the majority of threads are more friendly 
>(not to mention more on topic).

>It's just that every once in a while 
>Thorsten decides to be an arrogant asshole about something he claims to 
>understand, but doesn't.

Now, aren't these two statements contradictory!

What we see here is a conflict between two quite self-confident,
elitarian egos. Might I add, both have very solid grounds of being
self-confident and elitarian :) I don't see any assholes around.

You will see either one jumping in from the same heights when
defending other subjects they have their opinions on. It's just that
in this very case, they chose the same subject :)

Seriously, there is no sense of personal insults. Someone even tried
to drag Bill into this argument and he's been staying out much more
wisely than most of the participants.

>I suppose it might be better policy to just ignore people like him, but 
>there are times when something must be said (and then beaten to death), 
>are there not?

Yes there are such times (as my post proves) but no, you got the rest
wrong. Why not ignore the subject and not the person? Or do you really
think any of the participants in the thread are really assholes?

>That, and of course the fact that he maintains the Mac version of 
>POV-Ray (in strict accordance with Apple human interface research 
>findings that exist entirely in his own mind and contradict public 
>documents, I might add), makes him harder to ignore completely...

The POV-Ray Team and its members have a clean history of taking user
feedback seriously. If enough people find a bug or demand a feature,
that bug is removed or the feature is usually added, of course within
the natural imposed limits of hardware, software, algorithm, current
implementation etc.

Please, take a more civilized approach to the subject. That's to
everyone.


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] vipbg
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

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"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:3d74e634@news.povray.org...
> In article <3d74d186@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>  wrote:
>
>
> No, you can specify where things appear and in what size and the depend on
> them being where they are.  Like your flying menu did.
>

Well, you can - any technology can be used badly - but used well, CSS enhances a
webpage.

For example (I hope) - take a look at my site (http://www.tomandlu.co.uk). I use
CSS throughout, but (hopefully) the pages are fully-functional without it.

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In article <3d75d4e1@news.povray.org> , "Tom Melly" <tom### [at] tomandlucouk> 
wrote:

> Well, you can - any technology can be used badly - but used well, CSS enhances
> a webpage.

That is of course true.

> For example (I hope) - take a look at my site (http://www.tomandlu.co.uk). I
> use CSS throughout, but (hopefully) the pages are fully-functional without it.

Yes, just like povray.org is.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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Peter Popov <pet### [at] vipbg> wrote:
> Why not ignore the subject and not the person?

  This is an extremely wise suggestion.
  Sometimes when someone fights with someone else about a subject, he starts
disliking the person in everything he does, in a quite revengeful way. That
is, no matter what the other person does, he will be against him just by
principle, having some kind of fool revenge ideology.
  I personally try to avoid this as much as possible. Even when I have a
strong fight with someone, that doesn't affect my attitude towards this
person in other matters in any way. I usually don't remember "ah, this is
the person who I had a fight with" later in other discussions.

-- 
#macro M(A,N,D,L)plane{-z,-9pigment{mandel L*9translate N color_map{[0rgb x]
[1rgb 9]}scale<D,D*3D>*1e3}rotate y*A*8}#end M(-3<1.206434.28623>70,7)M(
-1<.7438.1795>1,20)M(1<.77595.13699>30,20)M(3<.75923.07145>80,99)// - Warp -

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"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
news:3d7618f5@news.povray.org...
> Peter Popov <pet### [at] vipbg> wrote:
> > Why not ignore the subject and not the person?
>
>   This is an extremely wise suggestion.
>   Sometimes when someone fights with someone else about a subject, he
starts
> disliking the person in everything he does, in a quite revengeful way.
>


    Tell me about it... :(

--
Pandora/Scott Hill/[::O:M:C::]Scorpion
Software Engineer.
http://www.pandora-software.com

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