I posted this in another thread so please excuse the cross-posting but this
thread here is where it really should go:

Ok guys,

Now that you have fought for a while (and provided me with some amusing
reading) I would like to comment on your war of words.

I am probably one of those hated outsiders because I am using Outlook
Express as a newsreader. I admit to occasional use of Netscape's newsreader
(now in version 4.61). Perhaps that alone disqualifies me from partaking in
this thread but I take my chances.

I also noticed that a few posters use VCards. They show up as a little icon
identifying them immediately as a VCard. So unless I want to get additional
info about the guy who posted I simply ignore them. Actually, my newsreaders
are smart enough to identify the type of attachment.

As far as sigs are concerned I usually ignore them too. Some are really
funny but after a while ... well, let's skip that. Oh, the ones that are
supposed to resemble something and use all those funny characters are the
worst because unless you use a typewriter font they appear just like
garbage.

One thing that struck me while following the discussion (which, btw, is
really way off topic) is that some of you use a newsreader from the old
times, i.e. when the net was used only by students and other members of the
mental elite. Yet, all of you cannot wait until a new version of PoV-Ray
comes out. That IMHO is schizophrenic.

I think if you want to use your newsreader of choice and it cannot process
certain data in a way you like you either have to accept that or do
something about your application. The net is a place where people can meet
without prejudice or bias, irrespective of sex, color, belief or OS and
newsreader for that matter. And whatnot.

BTW, I am annoyed by the fact that people post huge files w/o letting me
know how large they are. So I only find out after the fact that it takes
ages to download over a phone line. Obviously, the posters have fast
Internet access or are a lot more patient than I am. Yet, I do not flame
them or ask them to not post or use a smaller resolution for their images or
do this and do that. They have a choice of medium and so do I.

Take care, guys. This newsgroup would not be what it is without you and your
contributions!

--
.....Opinions are my own....
Bernd M. Jordan
URL: http://members.aol.com/berndmj/

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Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
: 	Don't play that stupld game with me. Use your filter or shut up. 

  You ask me to shut up? You are the one who is insulting me. You are the
one who is calling me nazi, communist and hitler. You are the one who is
provoking and attacking me. I have apologized but you keep calling me nazi
and telling that my signature is shit. And you ask _me_ to shut up?

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:04:44 -0400, Bernd M. Jordan wrote:
>One thing that struck me while following the discussion (which, btw, is
>really way off topic) is that some of you use a newsreader from the old
>times, i.e. when the net was used only by students and other members of the
>mental elite. Yet, all of you cannot wait until a new version of PoV-Ray
>comes out. That IMHO is schizophrenic.

I don't understand this.  I use the most modern newsreader I could find, 
one that has features Netscape, Microsoft, and even Forte haven't bothered 
to provide in their primitive newsreaders, and yet people still insist that 
it is obsolete.  Let the GUI brainwashing commence, I guess.  

Perhaps we should ask the POV-Team to stop wasting time on that MS-DOS 
port, and the Unix povray and s-povray versions.  After all, if it doesn't 
have windows and a mouse, it's primitive.  And I guess that Macintosh port
isn't very useful, either.  I mean, after all, some huge percentage of 
people use Windows, so it must be better.  And if they can't use our BMP
files and Moray scenes, that's their problem.  They should clearly upgrade 
their computers. 

Feh!

For the record, I modified my killfile to only kill Matt in this thread,
because he does have some useful things to say when he's being rational.
I hope to have a vcard filter written for slrn in a day or two, so then 
I'll be able to again read his posts without screaming.  Users of other
open-source newsreader software who know C (that means you, Warp :) ), 
I urge you to take up the gauntlet: add a vcard filter to your newsreader,
then submit it back to your newsreader's maintainer.  Make the world a
better place for everyone, and let the Netscape users rot in their own
private vcard-inundated hell.

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Steve wrote:

> It's the download that's the annoyance and the loading whatever
> group it is in, not the content.  It's just spam.

	I think I know the one real and the dozen imaginary meanings of
spam. You appear to be in the imaginary zone. 

	In my time I have told folks with their HTML on that fine but
turn it off because they are not using it. Defaults are fun but
... Use it, fine. No problem. 

	The HTML encapsulation of elementary information is not a bad
idea. Now you can object to all the extra vcards but they are not
duplicated where sigs are with every post. If I post a million
messages, you get a million sigs and only vcard. And I know that
is dependent on cluster size and packet size and all the rest. It
might be a totally dumb idea. 

	From my point of view. I started posting in these newsgroups
about seven months ago. 

	I started the vcard about that time. I can explain if you know
Windows but otherwise don't ask. 

	Then after posting in almost every group for all that time,
including this one, I get a nastygram from one person in general.
He starts a flame war. A statement that "we don't do that here"
would have been fine and treated accordingly. Who the hell is we? 

	Remember "including this one."

	And I do not give a rat's ass who reads what I poat or not. He
who has eyes, let him read. He who doea not read, EF off. 

	From what most of my readers say there is a greater cost in
following my convoluted syntax than ignoring lines that are
obviously to be ignored can possibly compare to. 

	Is that a good enough example?

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Ron Parker <par### [at] fwicom> wrote:
: Users of other
: open-source newsreader software who know C (that means you, Warp :) ), 
: I urge you to take up the gauntlet: add a vcard filter to your newsreader,
: then submit it back to your newsreader's maintainer.  Make the world a
: better place for everyone, and let the Netscape users rot in their own
: private vcard-inundated hell.

  I have to think about that.
  I shouldn't be too hard after all...

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Nieminen Mika wrote:

>   Then I apologize. Forgive me.
>   Now I ask you. Is that ok?

	Fine. Back to our regularly scheduled absurdities. :)

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Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> Matt Giwer <mgi### [at] giwersworldorg> wrote:
> :       Don't play that stupld game with me. Use your filter or shut up.


	Back to our regularly scheduled absurditeis. :)

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Hey Matt,

First, let me say that I'm not about to tell you what you should do or should not
do. I'm also not about to tell you that your own choices are right or wrong. I
don't have the right or the privilege. There's a lot of heat flying around on this
topic and I am not inclined to add to it. Instead, I thought I'd just share my
point of view as to how I do things, without placing judgment on anyone else.

For me, I view these newsgroups as a resource. Typically, I post to them to ask
questions, answer questions, get opinions or offer opinions. When I'm posting
messages, one of the primary considerations I have is whether or not everyone will
be able to read my messages. There have been times when I have been tempted to add
in colored text, bold or italicized text, etc. But I always resist the temptation.
Doing otherwise may preclude the ability of some readers to understand what I am
saying. That, in my mind, would end up defeating the purpose of my posting
something in the first place. It could also end up precluding my getting the
answers I need.

Anyhow. That's how I do things. :{) Hope I haven't wasted more than a moment or two
of your time. But if I have, feel free to filter me out in the future. <grin>

David

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Matt Giwer wrote:

>         Where do the owners of this newsgroup have that rule stated?
> Please state EXACTLY where that rule is stated.

  The official stance of the owners of this server are as follows though
unrelated material was removed to maintain brevity. You may read the full
context of the server posting policy in the announcement group here on this
server...

-------------

Put simply, a binary is any file that is not a plain text file. For our
newsgroup purposes, the following are examples of binary files:

- JPEGs, or other graphic file formats,

- HTML-encoded text (many people who follow our newsgroups use
  newsreaders that cannot automatically read HTML posts without
  launching an external Web browser. Please post plain text messages or,
  at least a combination of plain text and HTML),

- any executable file,

- any other file that is sent as an attachment to a posted message, even
    if it is readable text. This includes POV-Ray scene (.pov) files
    sent as message attachments.

----------

  I would have to say that you Vcard falls into these categories by virtue of
the fact that it is an attachment. Please act responsibly and do yourself a
favour and take the time to read the server access policy in it's entirety.

-- 
Ken Tyler

See my 700+ Povray and 3D Rendering and Raytracing Links at:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html

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On 11 Aug 1999 12:21:22 -0400, Nieminen Mika wrote:
>Ron Parker <par### [at] fwicom> wrote:
>: Users of other
>: open-source newsreader software who know C (that means you, Warp :) ), 
>: I urge you to take up the gauntlet: add a vcard filter to your newsreader,
>: then submit it back to your newsreader's maintainer.  Make the world a
>: better place for everyone, and let the Netscape users rot in their own
>: private vcard-inundated hell.
>
>  I have to think about that.
>  I shouldn't be too hard after all...

I am now the proud owner of a vcard-free slrn.  It was a three-line change
in the routine that reads articles (it uses strstr to check the current line
for the string "text/x-vcard".  If found, it stops reading.)  Your mileage 
probably will vary, of course.  And now I'm going to remove Matt from my 
score file, since I found such a nice solution.

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