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Ron Parker wrote:
>
> On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:11:32 -0700, Ken wrote:
> > I have a website on Geocities that is bound by this new contract. I
> >decide to host a mirror site for Pov-Ray and put a copy of all of the
> >binaries on this page for people to download.
> > Does the new policy imply that because I have those files on my site
> >they now have the unimpeded right to use the official Pov program to make
> >money on it ?
>
> No. The new policy implies that you don't have the right to make the
> mirror site, as you don't have the legal right to assign copyright on
> the files.
Somebody should warn Chris Colefax if hasn't been warned yet!
Marc
--
Marc Schimmler
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>Somebody should warn Chris Colefax if hasn't been warned yet!
>
>Marc
>--
>Marc Schimmler
Just sent him an email.
--
Lance.
---
For the latest 3D Studio MAX plug-ins, images and much more, go to:
The Zone - http://come.to/the.zone
For a totally different experience, visit my Chroma Key Website:
Colorblind - http://listen.to/colorblind
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In article <377a73d8@news.povray.org> , par### [at] fwi com (Ron Parker) wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:11:32 -0700, Ken wrote:
>> I have a website on Geocities that is bound by this new contract. I
>>decide to host a mirror site for Pov-Ray and put a copy of all of the
>>binaries on this page for people to download.
>> Does the new policy imply that because I have those files on my site
>>they now have the unimpeded right to use the official Pov program to make
>>money on it ?
>
> No. The new policy implies that you don't have the right to make the
> mirror site, as you don't have the legal right to assign copyright on
> the files.
Well, even if you would, there would be little they can do (legally) if you
have data with copyright on your site, at least if you are outside the US...
the worst they can do is take the site of there server.
Thorsten
____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: Tho### [at] csicom
Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org
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"Jon A. Cruz" wrote:
> They have a new aggreement that includes a clause that basically says
> they get to use whatever you post in whatever way they feel, forever and
> at no charge.
>
> see http://slashdot.org/articles/99/06/29/1535228.shtml
>
> and
>
> http://copyright.focus-online.com/copyright.html
It looks like things are somewhat working.
Geocities/Yahoo is trying to clear up their license and public perception.
It's a start. Good to see that some people can make a difference (even if
it's a tiny token one).
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,38643,00.html?st.ne.fd.gif.e
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Jon A. Cruz wrote:
> They have a new aggreement that includes a clause that basically says
> they get to use whatever you post in whatever way they feel, forever and
> at no charge.
and after some discussion, Marc Schimmler wrote:
> Somebody should warn Chris Colefax if hasn't been warned yet!
Thanks to Lance and others I have been duly notified - gratitude to all
for showing such concern! In response I've taken the time to read
through the new and revised Terms of Service, and various objections
that have been raised elsewhere on the web. If you could forgive me for
being a little moderate, it seems to me to be a question (as always) of
interpretation.
The line from Yahoo themselves seems to be that the "broad" language is
required to allow them to better host/mirror the sites, and in this vein
the references to "adapt, publish, translate..." and "technology now
known or later developed" could be seen simply as allowing them to
reformat pages for WebTV/spoken word browsers, etc. On the other hand,
"the purpose of displaying and distributing such Content on our network
of properties and for the promotion and marketing of *our* services" (my
emphasis) is fairly explicit!
For me, the most 'interesting' phrase is "royalty-free, perpetual,
irrevocable, non-exclusive ... right and license". I can live with the
first (I've never paid them a cent, so what do I expect!), and I quite
like the fourth, but the severity of the terms sandwiched in-between is
definitely concerning.
>From a practical point of view it's a matter of weighing up the
alternatives - as has been said, Yahoo's terms aren't much different
from other 'free' services, and Lance has already moaned about the cost
of the net here in Australia so I won't bore you with more "wish I was
over there" sentiments. My current ISP does offer web space, but it
would mean removing/reducing the AVI and JPG samples on my site.
Truth be told I've quite enjoyed GeoCities hosting my site - the steady
web and email addresses have been great as I move from ISP to ISP, and
the hosting service has been bigger and better than any of the local
ISP's I've tried so far. The pop-up's were admittedly irritating, but
it didn't take much to remove them, and the replacement banner ad's seem
to be pretty much par for the course in these heady, commercial days.
As it is consumer pressure may yet effect more amendments to Yahoo's
policy, and at any rate I can't currently 'sign-up' properly with
Yahoo-GeoCities due to an error with their server (an ominous sign,
perhaps?!), so I have yet to bind myself to anything definite....
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In article <377CCC9F.ABD88220@ledanet.com.au>, cco### [at] geocitiescom wrote:
>The line from Yahoo themselves seems to be that the "broad" language is
>required to allow them to better host/mirror the sites, and in this vein
>the references to "adapt, publish, translate..." and "technology now
>known or later developed" could be seen simply as allowing them to
>reformat pages for WebTV/spoken word browsers, etc. On the other hand,
Something that needs to be remembered is that even if a creator "trusts"
Yahoo not to take advantage of the broad license in other than "nice"
ways, ownership changes, and changes in ownership tend to transfer
contractual obligations (caveat: I am not a lawyer). Anyone who agrees to
those terms with Yahoo could well find themselves having agreed to those
terms with Microsoft, America On-Line, Sony, or AT&T later on. (Not saying
specifically that one of those are bad, just trying to include enough
corporations in the list that any individual creator might be scared of at
least one of those owning a perpetual irrevocable sublicensable license to
use their creations.)j
Management changes also need to be taken into account.
Jerry
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Hej Chris, hey all!
I too have been and are a member of GeoCities for quite a while now and
I agree to Chris opinion that the web-hosting terms of service are not
as dangerous as it may seem.
I can quite well understand that Yahoo and all the other providers of
web space out there have to insure themselves for not being sued for
copyright forgery especially when they are hosted in a country like the
USA where every legal procedure easily is bound to millions of dollars.
The internet is still quite a new medium and thus are its rights and
laws. However if you have a look at the more established media like
print and even broadcast - whenever you want to publish something it's a
normal procedure that you transfer your copyright to the publisher or
broadcasting station. If e.g. you write a book and it's then published
by a company, the copyright of the book is no longer in your hands but
in the hands of the publisher (just open any book you can grab right now
and have a look on the very first pages). OK you might say: "I get payed
for writing the book, so they can get the rights..." but you don't get
payed by Yahoo/Geocities... That's right, but the readers of your web
page don't have to pay either - they would have to buy a book ...
I can live with the terms I agreed to at Yahoo and I'm not planning to
move to another service - but of course that's a decision that everyone
has to make by him/herself.
Uwe.
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Uwe Zimmermann wrote:
>
> Hej Chris, hey all!
>
> I too have been and are a member of GeoCities for quite a while now and
> I agree to Chris opinion that the web-hosting terms of service are not
> as dangerous as it may seem.
> I can quite well understand that Yahoo and all the other providers of
> web space out there have to insure themselves for not being sued for
> copyright forgery especially when they are hosted in a country like the
> USA where every legal procedure easily is bound to millions of dollars.
> The internet is still quite a new medium and thus are its rights and
> laws. However if you have a look at the more established media like
> print and even broadcast - whenever you want to publish something it's a
> normal procedure that you transfer your copyright to the publisher or
> broadcasting station. If e.g. you write a book and it's then published
> by a company, the copyright of the book is no longer in your hands but
> in the hands of the publisher (just open any book you can grab right now
> and have a look on the very first pages). OK you might say: "I get payed
> for writing the book, so they can get the rights..." but you don't get
> payed by Yahoo/Geocities... That's right, but the readers of your web
> page don't have to pay either - they would have to buy a book ...
>
> I can live with the terms I agreed to at Yahoo and I'm not planning to
> move to another service - but of course that's a decision that everyone
> has to make by him/herself.
>
> Uwe.
Let's look at it from a different perspective. Let's say I take 1
year making the most beautiful 3d raytraced image ever produced by
anyone. I then decide to share the fruits of my labor with the world
and then find it two weeks later as the official splash screen for
Yahoo/Geocities making a fortune for them and not a penny goes to me.
I will drag their sorry butts into every court in the land from city
to federal using any and every unscrupulous lawyer I can find who
want's to make a name for himself and I won't stop until I have
satisfaction.
There are limits to responsible business and they simply cannot self
proclaim themselves to be sharks and expect everyone to be happy being
their next meal. Obviously only a fool would put work of such value on
a site where grand theft like this could happen and I for one would not
even consider doing so.
I see this policy of theirs not only restrictive but socially and morally
unconscionable.
--
Ken Tyler
mailto://tylereng@pacbell.net
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Hej Ken, hej all!
First: Ken, you really seem to live "in" this list, concerning your
short answer delay times.... ;-)
Ken wrote:
> Let's look at it from a different perspective. Let's say I take 1
> year making the most beautiful 3d raytraced image ever produced by
> anyone. I then decide to share the fruits of my labor with the world
> and then find it two weeks later as the official splash screen for
> Yahoo/Geocities making a fortune for them and not a penny goes to me.
I'm not a lawyer, nor am I firm in the juristic language (and by the way
I'm not employed by or in any other way related to Yahoo) used in the
USA or otherwhere on this planet (as these languages often differ quite
a lot from the "common" languages). However, in the Terms of Service the
now often cited and controversely discussed paragraph reads:
"[..] By submitting Content to any Yahoo property, you automatically
grant [..] Yahoo the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive
and fully sublicensable right and license to _use_, _reproduce_,
_modify_, _adapt_, _publish_, _translate_, _create derivative_ works
from, _distribute_, _perform and display_ such Content (in whole or
part) worldwide and/or to _incorporate_ it in other works in any form,
media, or technology now known or later developed. [..]"
Well isn't it, what we expect Yahoo to do? Publish our pages on a
worldwide basis?
Uploading something to your homepage at Geocities/Yahoo you do not
surrender your authorship to Yahoo! They still have to name you as
author/creator of your "most beautiful 3d raytraced image" whenever they
decide to put it somewhere else!
And by the way: who guarantees you that your picture is not used as the
title of a book somewhere else on this world, once you put it on the web
- without your knowledge and without you ever seeing the result.....
By the way, Yahoo is very concerned that the latter does not happen to
your creations, if you read article 23: Copyright and Copyright Agents
of the Terms of Service:
"Yahoo respects the intellectual property of others, and we ask our
users to do the same. If you believe that your work has been copied in a
way that constitutes copyright infringement, pleas provide Yahoo's
Copyright Agent the following: ..."
But that stuff above is only my own humbled opinion and my own
interpretation of the contract.
Uwe.
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Uwe Zimmermann wrote:
>
> Hej Ken, hej all!
>
> First: Ken, you really seem to live "in" this list, concerning your
> short answer delay times.... ;-)
>
> Ken wrote:
> > Let's look at it from a different perspective. Let's say I take 1
> > year making the most beautiful 3d raytraced image ever produced by
> > anyone. I then decide to share the fruits of my labor with the world
> > and then find it two weeks later as the official splash screen for
> > Yahoo/Geocities making a fortune for them and not a penny goes to me.
>
> I'm not a lawyer, nor am I firm in the juristic language (and by the way
> I'm not employed by or in any other way related to Yahoo) used in the
> USA or otherwhere on this planet (as these languages often differ quite
> a lot from the "common" languages). However, in the Terms of Service the
> now often cited and controversely discussed paragraph reads:
>
> "[..] By submitting Content to any Yahoo property, you automatically
> grant [..] Yahoo the royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive
> and fully sublicensable right and license to _use_, _reproduce_,
> _modify_, _adapt_, _publish_, _translate_, _create derivative_ works
> from, _distribute_, _perform and display_ such Content (in whole or
> part) worldwide and/or to _incorporate_ it in other works in any form,
> media, or technology now known or later developed. [..]"
>
> Well isn't it, what we expect Yahoo to do? Publish our pages on a
> worldwide basis?
> Uploading something to your homepage at Geocities/Yahoo you do not
> surrender your authorship to Yahoo! They still have to name you as
> author/creator of your "most beautiful 3d raytraced image" whenever they
> decide to put it somewhere else!
>
> And by the way: who guarantees you that your picture is not used as the
> title of a book somewhere else on this world, once you put it on the web
> - without your knowledge and without you ever seeing the result.....
>
> By the way, Yahoo is very concerned that the latter does not happen to
> your creations, if you read article 23: Copyright and Copyright Agents
> of the Terms of Service:
> "Yahoo respects the intellectual property of others, and we ask our
> users to do the same. If you believe that your work has been copied in a
> way that constitutes copyright infringement, pleas provide Yahoo's
> Copyright Agent the following: ..."
>
> But that stuff above is only my own humbled opinion and my own
> interpretation of the contract.
>
> Uwe.
What bothers me is the part where they say they can adapt or modify the content.
What would that imply?
Remco
http://www.geocities.com:80/SiliconValley/Lakes/7077/screen.html
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