Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> You will need to join the end of the Queue. :)
> Thomas is working with me. So don't distract him. :P
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>      Stephen

o.k. I am the last to welcome Thomas to. :))))))))))

But Thomas should know that I signed to him to the reception. :)))

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On 11/7/2016 6:51 PM, [GDS|Enropy] wrote:
> Hello,
>
> As a result of a different discussion, I used Google Trends to track
> searches for Pov since 2004.
>
> What I found is sad, but I think I found a ray of hope (d'oh..pun).
>
> Since 2004, searches for (pov ray and pov-ray) have practically dropped
> orders of magnitude:
> https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=pov-ray,pov%20ray
>
> Searches for (povray) are worse:
> https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=pov-ray,pov%20ray,povray
>
> Here is povray vs blender and sketch up:
>
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=pov-ray,blender%203d,pov%20ray,sketchup
>
> I found that the interest in Pov seems highly localized, whereas blender
> and sketchup are more widely spread.
>
> What is this hope of which I speak?
>
> Well, SketchUp is apparently MADLY popular, and there is a plugin called
> SU2POV which allows interop.
>
> I didn't even know it existed until I specifically searched for a Sketchup
> plugin for Pov...so I think if that plugin could be improved, and sketchup
> users here and elsewhere did a bit of old-school mid 90's software
> evangelism...Pov might just get a good influx of new blood.
>
> This would need to be done most especially by those speaking other
> languages, due to the highly localized interest in Pov vs sketchup.
>
> Does anyone else have thoughts about this? Strategies?
>
> Ian
>

The main reasons I use POV-Ray are because it's free, and because I'm 
too lazy to learn Blender. My 2 cents.

Mike

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Thomas de Groot wrote:

> Ah! There it is! This has been indeed one of the major complaints:
> people (outside of POV-Ray) do not want to create using text editors
> (any more).

I Do Not Fingerpaint.

I Do Not Use Software That Expects Me To Fingerpaint.

I Am A Grownup.  I Can Read And Write.  I Can Do Math.

Reading And Writing And Math Are Accurate.  Fingerpainting Is Guesswork. 
  I Like Accuracy.  I Do Not Like Guesswork.

I Like Reading And Writing.  I Like Doing Math.  I Want To Read And 
Write And Do Math.  I Do Not Want To Fingerpaint.

And that's why I do POV-Ray.*  :)

--Sherry Shaw

* Oh, and also because it is awesome.

-- 
#macro T(E,N)sphere{x,.4rotate z*E*60translate y*N pigment{wrinkles scale
.3}finish{ambient 1}}#end#local I=0;#while(I<5)T(I,1)T(1-I,-1)#local I=I+
1;#end camera{location-5*z}plane{z,37 pigment{granite color_map{[.7rgb 0]
[1rgb 1]}}finish{ambient 2}}//                                   TenMoons

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On 12-11-2016 17:17, LanuHum wrote:
> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>> You will need to join the end of the Queue. :)
>> Thomas is working with me. So don't distract him. :P
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>      Stephen
>
> o.k. I am the last to welcome Thomas to. :))))))))))
>
> But Thomas should know that I signed to him to the reception. :)))
>
>

Oh, right! I shall take the back door to avoid the queue and the press ;-)

I think I shall pass the hot potato to Stephen; after all, he is the 
animation expert. I am not good at it...

-- 
Thomas

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On 13-11-2016 5:02, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> Ah! There it is! This has been indeed one of the major complaints:
>> people (outside of POV-Ray) do not want to create using text editors
>> (any more).
>
> I Do Not Fingerpaint.
>
> I Do Not Use Software That Expects Me To Fingerpaint.
>
> I Am A Grownup.  I Can Read And Write.  I Can Do Math.
>
> Reading And Writing And Math Are Accurate.  Fingerpainting Is Guesswork.
>  I Like Accuracy.  I Do Not Like Guesswork.
>
> I Like Reading And Writing.  I Like Doing Math.  I Want To Read And
> Write And Do Math.  I Do Not Want To Fingerpaint.
>
> And that's why I do POV-Ray.*  :)
>
> --Sherry Shaw
>
> * Oh, and also because it is awesome.
>

Absolutely! Although, me, I am not very good at math, so I mix POV-Ray 
with a bit of fingerpainting.

[blush][small print] I like fingerpainting [/small print][/blush]

-- 
Thomas

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On 11/13/2016 7:59 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 12-11-2016 17:17, LanuHum wrote:
>> Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
>>> You will need to join the end of the Queue. :)
>>> Thomas is working with me. So don't distract him. :P
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>      Stephen
>>
>> o.k. I am the last to welcome Thomas to. :))))))))))
>>
>> But Thomas should know that I signed to him to the reception. :)))
>>
>>
>
> Oh, right! I shall take the back door to avoid the queue and the press ;-)
>
> I think I shall pass the hot potato to Stephen; after all, he is the
> animation expert. I am not good at it...
>

But I will be trying to learn blender so I am disqualified.

Shame about that. :)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 11/13/2016 8:07 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 13-11-2016 5:02, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>
>>> Ah! There it is! This has been indeed one of the major complaints:
>>> people (outside of POV-Ray) do not want to create using text editors
>>> (any more).
>>
>> I Do Not Fingerpaint.
>>
>> I Do Not Use Software That Expects Me To Fingerpaint.
>>
>> I Am A Grownup.  I Can Read And Write.  I Can Do Math.
>>
>> Reading And Writing And Math Are Accurate.  Fingerpainting Is Guesswork.
>>  I Like Accuracy.  I Do Not Like Guesswork.
>>
>> I Like Reading And Writing.  I Like Doing Math.  I Want To Read And
>> Write And Do Math.  I Do Not Want To Fingerpaint.
>>
>> And that's why I do POV-Ray.*  :)
>>
>> --Sherry Shaw
>>
>> * Oh, and also because it is awesome.
>>
>
> Absolutely! Although, me, I am not very good at math, so I mix POV-Ray
> with a bit of fingerpainting.
>
> [blush][small print] I like fingerpainting [/small print][/blush]
>

I'm too lazy to do the maths.
Splash a bit here smudge a bit there. That's the way to do it!

Does the kraken awake?
Because I think LanuHum is right.
<aside> I wonder what the average age of Pov-Ray users is. </aside>

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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On 13-11-2016 9:34, Stephen wrote:
> On 11/13/2016 8:07 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 13-11-2016 5:02, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>>> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ah! There it is! This has been indeed one of the major complaints:
>>>> people (outside of POV-Ray) do not want to create using text editors
>>>> (any more).
>>>
>>> I Do Not Fingerpaint.
>>>
>>> I Do Not Use Software That Expects Me To Fingerpaint.
>>>
>>> I Am A Grownup.  I Can Read And Write.  I Can Do Math.
>>>
>>> Reading And Writing And Math Are Accurate.  Fingerpainting Is Guesswork.
>>>  I Like Accuracy.  I Do Not Like Guesswork.
>>>
>>> I Like Reading And Writing.  I Like Doing Math.  I Want To Read And
>>> Write And Do Math.  I Do Not Want To Fingerpaint.
>>>
>>> And that's why I do POV-Ray.*  :)
>>>
>>> --Sherry Shaw
>>>
>>> * Oh, and also because it is awesome.
>>>
>>
>> Absolutely! Although, me, I am not very good at math, so I mix POV-Ray
>> with a bit of fingerpainting.
>>
>> [blush][small print] I like fingerpainting [/small print][/blush]
>>
>
> I'm too lazy to do the maths.
> Splash a bit here smudge a bit there. That's the way to do it!
>
> Does the kraken awake?
> Because I think LanuHum is right.
> <aside> I wonder what the average age of Pov-Ray users is. </aside>

Age? well above average I am sure. So, what to do about it?

-- 
Thomas

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On 2016-11-13 3:37 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 13-11-2016 9:34, Stephen wrote:
>> On 11/13/2016 8:07 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>> On 13-11-2016 5:02, Sherry K. Shaw wrote:
>>>> Thomas de Groot wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ah! There it is! This has been indeed one of the major complaints:
>>>>> people (outside of POV-Ray) do not want to create using text editors
>>>>> (any more).
>>>>
>>>> I Do Not Fingerpaint.
>>>>
>>>> I Do Not Use Software That Expects Me To Fingerpaint.
>>>>
>>>> I Am A Grownup.  I Can Read And Write.  I Can Do Math.
>>>>
>>>> Reading And Writing And Math Are Accurate.  Fingerpainting Is
>>>> Guesswork.
>>>>  I Like Accuracy.  I Do Not Like Guesswork.
>>>>
>>>> I Like Reading And Writing.  I Like Doing Math.  I Want To Read And
>>>> Write And Do Math.  I Do Not Want To Fingerpaint.
>>>>
>>>> And that's why I do POV-Ray.*  :)
>>>>
>>>> --Sherry Shaw
>>>>
>>>> * Oh, and also because it is awesome.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely! Although, me, I am not very good at math, so I mix POV-Ray
>>> with a bit of fingerpainting.
>>>
>>> [blush][small print] I like fingerpainting [/small print][/blush]
>>>
>>
>> I'm too lazy to do the maths.
>> Splash a bit here smudge a bit there. That's the way to do it!
>>
>> Does the kraken awake?
>> Because I think LanuHum is right.
>> <aside> I wonder what the average age of Pov-Ray users is. </aside>
>
> Age? well above average I am sure. So, what to do about it?
>

What POVRay needs is its own user interface tailored to POVRay. Other 
user interfaces tend to break the world into triangles which don't 
translate well to POVRay.  The POVRay text files are cumbersome because 
they are non-visual and they force you to constantly switch from text 
mode to render mode.

I would like to see a user interface that supports all of the POVRay 
primitives.  It would allow you select components of the scene with 
parameters that are alterable.  You don't necessarily need to see the 
text but rather a graphical representation of the text.  It would allow 
you to change any parameters and would re-render the scene automatically 
with those changes.  The rendering might be incremental - it renders in 
low resolution first and refines the image as you wait or renders 
without textures then with textures or it renders without reflections 
and later adds reflections - just some ideas.

I often find myself asking "What happens if I change this parameter?" 
To answer that I need to keep editing and rendering until I understand 
it.  I'd rather select the parameter in a UI and use the mouse to change 
the value and see in real time what it does to the image.

Thoughts?
David Buck

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On 13-11-2016 13:06, David Buck wrote:
> What POVRay needs is its own user interface tailored to POVRay. Other
> user interfaces tend to break the world into triangles which don't
> translate well to POVRay.  The POVRay text files are cumbersome because
> they are non-visual and they force you to constantly switch from text
> mode to render mode.
>
> I would like to see a user interface that supports all of the POVRay
> primitives.  It would allow you select components of the scene with
> parameters that are alterable.  You don't necessarily need to see the
> text but rather a graphical representation of the text.  It would allow
> you to change any parameters and would re-render the scene automatically
> with those changes.  The rendering might be incremental - it renders in
> low resolution first and refines the image as you wait or renders
> without textures then with textures or it renders without reflections
> and later adds reflections - just some ideas.
>
> I often find myself asking "What happens if I change this parameter?" To
> answer that I need to keep editing and rendering until I understand it.
> I'd rather select the parameter in a UI and use the mouse to change the
> value and see in real time what it does to the image.
>
> Thoughts?
> David Buck
>

Yes, I agree with that indeed. That could be something like an enhanced 
Moray, could it not? All the more reasons to have Moray dusted off I 
believe, but that involves (wo)manpower which I believe the pov-team 
lacks at the moment. In the meantime, we - as users - could seriously 
assess what exactly we want changed - in Moray, if that is the course to 
follow - or implemented in a brand-new interface.

[I think it might be time for me to take Moray down from the 'shelf of 
forlorn programs', and start playing again...]

-- 
Thomas

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