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From: armigus
Subject: Need help with render... fast!
Date: 20 Jan 2005 05:05:01
Message: <web.41ef3b1676ade699d79c07b0@news.povray.org>
I seems that I have created an image that my computer cannot render.  It
requires more memory than my computer can address, even with a swap file.
This is the second time this has happened--my computer croaked on my
October 2001 entry and I still cannot render it.  I have a Barton 3200 XP
with 1 GB DDR running under Win2K Pro SP4.

Is there any resource that can be made available to the competition for the
purposes of creating images like these?
From: Slime
Subject: Re: Need help with render... fast!
Date: 20 Jan 2005 05:46:38
Message: <41ef45be$1@news.povray.org>
> I seems that I have created an image that my computer cannot render.  It
> requires more memory than my computer can address, even with a swap file.
> This is the second time this has happened--my computer croaked on my
> October 2001 entry and I still cannot render it.  I have a Barton 3200 XP
> with 1 GB DDR running under Win2K Pro SP4.


If 1 GB isn't enough, you'll probably have a hard time finding someone who
does have enough to help you out. Your best bet, especially at this point,
is probably to reduce the complexity of your scene. Here are a couple tips
off the top of my head:

 - Radiosity or photons (especially media photons) might be taking up a lot
of memory. If disabling them reduces memory usage significantly, then you
might try reducing radiosity quality or photon count. If you're using media
photons, try removing them entirely and creating some sort of density
instead to simulate the effect.
 - Copies of complex CSG objects take up a lot of extra memory (5 copies of
a CSG object = 5 times the memory), but copies of mesh objects don't (5
copies of a mesh = just slightly more than 1 times the memory). If you have
many copies of CSG objects, try to make mesh versions which look similar and
replace the far-away copies with the meshes. You might even try rendering
images of them and using image_maps in the far distance. (If CSG objects are
the problem, then you'll probably run out of memory *before* the scene
begins rendering, during parse time.)

If you know what's causing the crazy memory usage, then tell us and we may
be able to give you some more specific advice. Good luck.

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]
From: Eero Ahonen
Subject: Re: Need help with render... fast!
Date: 20 Jan 2005 15:56:24
Message: <41efd4a8$1@news.povray.org>
armigus wrote:
> I seems that I have created an image that my computer cannot render.  It
> requires more memory than my computer can address, even with a swap file.
> This is the second time this has happened--my computer croaked on my
> October 2001 entry and I still cannot render it.  I have a Barton 3200 XP
> with 1 GB DDR running under Win2K Pro SP4.
> 
> Is there any resource that can be made available to the competition for the
> purposes of creating images like these?
> 
> 

I could give it a try, if you're not ni extreme hurry; don't have lots 
of real RAM (only 512MB actually), but should be able to use lots and 
lots of swap (and that's slow - so rendering will take more than a while).

-- 
-Aero
From: Norbert Kern
Subject: Re: Need help with render... fast!
Date: 20 Jan 2005 18:27:07
Message: <41eff7fb$1@news.povray.org>
I own a 3.2 GHz XP System with 2 GB DDR memory.
Scenes which used about 1.5 GB peak memory rendered about 3 - 4 times faster
as with 1 GB RAM only.
At least this is true with the scenes I used so far.
Since this is my "render only" machine, perhaps I can help you.

Norbert Kern




"armigus" <nomail@nomail> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:web.41ef3b1676ade699d79c07b0@news.povray.org...
> I seems that I have created an image that my computer cannot render.  It
> requires more memory than my computer can address, even with a swap file.
> This is the second time this has happened--my computer croaked on my
> October 2001 entry and I still cannot render it.  I have a Barton 3200 XP
> with 1 GB DDR running under Win2K Pro SP4.
>
> Is there any resource that can be made available to the competition for
the
> purposes of creating images like these?
>
>
From: LightBeam
Subject: Re: Need help with render... fast!
Date: 23 Jan 2005 10:38:28
Message: <41f37ea4$1@news.povray.org>
armigus a écrit :
> I seems that I have created an image that my computer cannot render.  It
> requires more memory than my computer can address, even with a swap file.
> This is the second time this has happened--my computer croaked on my
> October 2001 entry and I still cannot render it.  I have a Barton 3200 XP
> with 1 GB DDR running under Win2K Pro SP4.
> 
> Is there any resource that can be made available to the competition for the
> purposes of creating images like these?

Use linux or go back to WinXP SP"0" ;-p
From: Renderdog
Subject: Re: Need help with render... fast!
Date: 23 Jan 2005 14:20:00
Message: <web.41f3b27462152f0e5a3d31170@news.povray.org>
"armigus" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> I seems that I have created an image that my computer cannot render.  It
> requires more memory than my computer can address, even with a swap file.
> This is the second time this has happened--my computer croaked on my
> October 2001 entry and I still cannot render it.  I have a Barton 3200 XP
> with 1 GB DDR running under Win2K Pro SP4.

I have 3 GB in a dual 2.5 GHz Power Mac I will be happy to render your
image on if you like. I'm home recovering from surgery so turnaround
shouldn't be too bad. I'm not entering the competition so no conflict there.

-Mark Slone
From: David Wallace
Subject: Re: Need help with render... fast!
Date: 24 Jan 2005 17:16:03
Message: <41f52d53$1@news.povray.org>
Norbert Kern wrote:
> I own a 3.2 GHz XP System with 2 GB DDR memory.
> Scenes which used about 1.5 GB peak memory rendered about 3 - 4 times faster
> as with 1 GB RAM only.
> At least this is true with the scenes I used so far.
> Since this is my "render only" machine, perhaps I can help you.
> 
> Norbert Kern
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "armigus" <nomail@nomail> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:web.41ef3b1676ade699d79c07b0@news.povray.org...
> 
>>I seems that I have created an image that my computer cannot render.  It
>>requires more memory than my computer can address, even with a swap file.
>>This is the second time this has happened--my computer croaked on my
>>October 2001 entry and I still cannot render it.  I have a Barton 3200 XP
>>with 1 GB DDR running under Win2K Pro SP4.
>>
>>Is there any resource that can be made available to the competition for
> 
> the
> 
>>purposes of creating images like these?
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
My peak Ram usage -- on a toned down image -- was 2.4 GB.  I was hoping the 
contest organizers would make their 8 GB prize machine available for renders, 
perhaps foolishly ;}


-- 
--------------
David Wallace
TenArbor Consulting
"Just In Time Cash"
www.tenarbor.com
1-866-572-CASH
From: David Wallace
Subject: Re: Need help with render... fast!
Date: 24 Jan 2005 17:32:25
Message: <41f53129@news.povray.org>
Slime wrote:
>>I seems that I have created an image that my computer cannot render.  It
>>requires more memory than my computer can address, even with a swap file.
>>This is the second time this has happened--my computer croaked on my
>>October 2001 entry and I still cannot render it.  I have a Barton 3200 XP
>>with 1 GB DDR running under Win2K Pro SP4.
> 
> 
> 
> If 1 GB isn't enough, you'll probably have a hard time finding someone who
> does have enough to help you out. Your best bet, especially at this point,
> is probably to reduce the complexity of your scene. Here are a couple tips
> off the top of my head:
> 
>  - Radiosity or photons (especially media photons) might be taking up a lot
> of memory. If disabling them reduces memory usage significantly, then you
> might try reducing radiosity quality or photon count. If you're using media
> photons, try removing them entirely and creating some sort of density
> instead to simulate the effect.
>  - Copies of complex CSG objects take up a lot of extra memory (5 copies of
> a CSG object = 5 times the memory), but copies of mesh objects don't (5
> copies of a mesh = just slightly more than 1 times the memory). If you have
> many copies of CSG objects, try to make mesh versions which look similar and
> replace the far-away copies with the meshes. You might even try rendering
> images of them and using image_maps in the far distance. (If CSG objects are
> the problem, then you'll probably run out of memory *before* the scene
> begins rendering, during parse time.)
> 
> If you know what's causing the crazy memory usage, then tell us and we may
> be able to give you some more specific advice. Good luck.
> 
>  - Slime
>  [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]
> 
> 
Biggest memory hog -- heightfields (the images alone are 100 MB)

Next hog -- bird meshes (each is unique, 183x73 grid resolution)

After that, lava (28,000 small isosurfaces, some with media steam plumes)

Then, plants (25,000 meshes, 2% are mesh union flowers, the rest are grass blades)

The heightfields are non-negotiable as I've seen the mediocre results of lower 
resolutions from test images.

The birds had light-sources inside their hollow bodies to light up their 
eyes--replacing them with "ambient light", or ambient finishes with radiosity, 
should help.

I have already toned things down as much as possible (10 birds, 25,000 plants) 
but I am still experiencing 2.45 GB peak usage and 1.95 GB steady usage.

What now?

-- 
--------------
David Wallace
TenArbor Consulting
"Just In Time Cash"
www.tenarbor.com
1-866-572-CASH
From: Slime
Subject: Re: Need help with render... fast!
Date: 24 Jan 2005 18:02:29
Message: <41f53835$1@news.povray.org>
> Biggest memory hog -- heightfields (the images alone are 100 MB)
> The heightfields are non-negotiable as I've seen the mediocre results of
lower
> resolutions from test images.

How large of an area do these height fields span? I would guess that you
have, say, a ground height field which goes from the foreground to the far
distance. This could be split up into multiple height fields; maybe two: one
for the foreground (keep the high detail on this one), and one for the
background (reduce the resolution significantly for this one). Cut the
foreground area out of the background height field by differencing it with a
box. If you have an extreme distance from the foreground to the background,
you might even use *three* levels of detail in this way.

You're saying "heightfields" as a plural. If any of these height fields are
identical, then make sure you're #declaring them once and using the same
object multiple times, since I think this will save memory the same way that
duplicating meshes does.

> Next hog -- bird meshes (each is unique, 183x73 grid resolution)

If you only have 10 bird meshes, as you say, then this shouldn't be too much
of a problem - unless the meshes are so incredibly huge that one bird alone
takes up a ton of memory, in which case you can probably reduce the
resolution. But I wouldn't suspect this is a problem (especially since mesh
duplication doesn't take up a lot of memory).

> After that, lava (28,000 small isosurfaces, some with media steam plumes)

Yikes. That's a lot of isosurfaces. I'm not sure exactly how lava
necessitates the use of multiple separate isosurfaces, but I'll assume that
they're each separate objects. (Maybe bubbles of some sort?) Again, let me
assume that you have some in the foreground and some in the distance. Keep
the isosurfaces in the foreground, but for the background, make an image map
of what these things should look like. Then write a single mesh, and for
each isosurface in the distance, use two triangles in the shape of a square,
UV-mapped with this image map so that it looks like the isosurface would
look but without the expense of memory. (This will also render faster.)

> Then, plants (25,000 meshes, 2% are mesh union flowers, the rest are grass
blades)

Are these all separate meshes? You could save a lot of memory by reducing
the number of meshes you're using (10 to 20 should be plenty) and
duplicating the same ones over and over (rotating them randomly to simulate
variation). Try also reducing the density of plants in the distance, and
even eliminating them entirely when they're off camera or behind hills or
other large objects (use the trace() function to determine this).

> The birds had light-sources inside their hollow bodies to light up their
> eyes--replacing them with "ambient light", or ambient finishes with
radiosity,
> should help.

That should definitely speed up the render time, though it might not make a
big difference in memory usage.

> I have already toned things down as much as possible (10 birds, 25,000
plants)
> but I am still experiencing 2.45 GB peak usage and 1.95 GB steady usage.
>
> What now?

I tried to give suggestions for each part of your scene, but first, do this:
comment out each element of your scene and, one at a time, uncomment an
individual element and render with a resolution of 1x1 (+H1 +W1). Do this
for the height fields, the birds, the isosurfaces, the plants, etc. For each
one, note the amount of memory being used. I wouldn't be surprised if one of
them uses much more than the others. Focus on the things taking up the most
memory first.

You're welcome to email me ( http://www.slimeland.com/contact/ ) with your
scene if you have no luck, and I'll see what I can do; I offer this to you
because time is running out. But first try my suggestions on your own.

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]
From: Chris Cason
Subject: Re: Need help with render... fast!
Date: 27 Jan 2005 23:33:59
Message: <41f97a67@news.povray.org>
> I have already toned things down as much as possible (10 birds, 25,000 plants) 
> but I am still experiencing 2.45 GB peak usage and 1.95 GB steady usage.

I have a 64-bit machine with 4gb if it helps.

-- Chris
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