Hi(gh)!

On 02.08.25 04:11, Clarence1898 wrote:
> I was going through some old drives and found this one.  I posted this probably
> 20 years ago as my obligatory first RSOCP.  I came across Povray in the early
> 90s and have used it off and on ever since.  I thought it might be interesting
> to see what programming Pov scenes would be like in the 1970's.  Just for a
> little background, I've been a mainframe programmer since 1969, and now enjoy
> programming PC's.

When I read the subject, I first thought of ASCII art... such as the 
physical maps based on early Landsat altimetry data I once saw in a 
1970s issue of "Afghanistan Journal", just numeric characters (0 to 9) 
for different altitude ranges and then manually(!) coloured...

I could very well imagine coding a rudimentary raytracer on my Commodore 
64 and then print the rendered scenes as such ASCII graphics...

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

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hi,

"Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> I was going through some old drives and found this one.  I posted this probably
> 20 years ago as my obligatory first RSOCP.  I came across Povray in the early
> 90s and have used it off and on ever since.  I thought it might be interesting
> to see what programming Pov scenes would be like in the 1970's.  Just for a
> little background, I've been a mainframe programmer since 1969, and now enjoy
> programming PC's.

very nice.  and the cards are punched :-).


(is the 1898 a jazz reference ?)


regards, jr.

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"Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> I was going through some old drives and found this one.  I posted this probably
> 20 years ago as my obligatory first RSOCP.  I came across Povray in the early
> 90s and have used it off and on ever since.  I thought it might be interesting
> to see what programming Pov scenes would be like in the 1970's.  Just for a
> little background, I've been a mainframe programmer since 1969, and now enjoy
> programming PC's.

Nice scene!
I have cases of the paper in your scene. Got them from a office supply store
that closed down in the late 90's. Used to use the punch cards as book markers.
Have Fun

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Hi(gh)!

On 02.08.25 19:37, Leroy wrote:

> I have cases of the paper in your scene. Got them from a office supply store
> that closed down in the late 90's. Used to use the punch cards as book markers.
> Have Fun
> 

When the Internet hit me first in 1995, Cologne University's computing 
centre still used a DIN A1 chain printer... and, yes, there even were 
some unused punchcards left! And it would be really nice to find a stack 
of DIN A4 fan-fold paper for my Commodore MPS 801 printer... if I only 
had some fresh ink ribbons for it! But who sells ink ribbons for a 
40+-year old matrix printer?

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Now crafting: lots of computers in Satisfactory!
-- 
VBI BENE, IBI BACTRIA!

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"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > I was going through some old drives and found this one.  I posted this probably
> > 20 years ago as my obligatory first RSOCP.  I came across Povray in the early
> > 90s and have used it off and on ever since.  I thought it might be interesting
> > to see what programming Pov scenes would be like in the 1970's.  Just for a
> > little background, I've been a mainframe programmer since 1969, and now enjoy
> > programming PC's.
>
> very nice.  and the cards are punched :-).
>
>
> (is the 1898 a jazz reference ?)
>
>
> regards, jr.

Thank You.  Of course the cards are punched.  How else could I feed the program
to the computer.  No, 1898 is not a reference to jazz.  I grew up in the 50s and
60s, my taste in music runs more to classic rock and roll.

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"Leroy" <whe### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > I was going through some old drives and found this one.  I posted this probably
> > 20 years ago as my obligatory first RSOCP.  I came across Povray in the early
> > 90s and have used it off and on ever since.  I thought it might be interesting
> > to see what programming Pov scenes would be like in the 1970's.  Just for a
> > little background, I've been a mainframe programmer since 1969, and now enjoy
> > programming PC's.
>
> Nice scene!
> I have cases of the paper in your scene. Got them from a office supply store
> that closed down in the late 90's. Used to use the punch cards as book markers.
> Have Fun

Thank You.  I ran out of green bar paper a long time ago.  I still have half a
box of punch cards left.  Indeed they make great book markers.

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hi,

"Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > ...
> Thank You.  Of course the cards are punched.  How else could I feed the program
> to the computer.

</grin>


>  No, 1898 is not a reference to jazz.  I grew up in the 50s and
> 60s, my taste in music runs more to classic rock and roll.

ah, ok, thanks.  (about 10 years ahead of self, then :-))

in the reply to Leroy, you wrote: "I ran out of green bar paper a long time
ago".  glad you did because I now (can) see what had "nagged" me re the image,
the solid colour bars.  the (fan-fold) "green bar" I remember, and used, had six
(I think) thin, parallel green lines making each "bar".  must be a
manufacturers' thing.


regards, jr.

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"Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> I was going through some old drives and found this one.  I posted this probably
> 20 years ago as my obligatory first RSOCP.  I came across Povray in the early
> 90s and have used it off and on ever since.  I thought it might be interesting
> to see what programming Pov scenes would be like in the 1970's.  Just for a
> little background, I've been a mainframe programmer since 1969, and now enjoy
> programming PC's.

Hi,
Did you render this on a current POV-Ray version (3.7 or 3.8b), and if so with
the proper version directive?

I love the concept, the visual ideas, and they read like a very nice picture...
So though I'm not used to that, it motivates me to use for the first time (and
maybe the last if it comes out too harsh) a very meanly well-intended sarcasm :
could you please use conserve_energy keyword with your metals, as they are
currently so blindingly bright that I can't see the picture ! ;-P
I wish Cousin Ricky's macros could be included in POV-Ray sources, so that the
default way of calling a metal would have all that hard-wired. because users
should be able to trust the defaults to not do that kind of thing. To sum it up
use fresnel, ior, conserve_energy and a sum of diffuse+specular+reflection below
1.(most clean and shiny metals should have very very low diffuse)

Seriously, nice hues and punched cards though, as I do see them!

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"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "Clarence1898" <dle### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > I was going through some old drives and found this one.  I posted this probably
> > 20 years ago as my obligatory first RSOCP.  I came across Povray in the early
> > 90s and have used it off and on ever since.  I thought it might be interesting
> > to see what programming Pov scenes would be like in the 1970's.  Just for a
> > little background, I've been a mainframe programmer since 1969, and now enjoy
> > programming PC's.
>
> Hi,
> Did you render this on a current POV-Ray version (3.7 or 3.8b), and if so with
> the proper version directive?
>
> I love the concept, the visual ideas, and they read like a very nice picture...
> So though I'm not used to that, it motivates me to use for the first time (and
> maybe the last if it comes out too harsh) a very meanly well-intended sarcasm :
> could you please use conserve_energy keyword with your metals, as they are
> currently so blindingly bright that I can't see the picture ! ;-P
> I wish Cousin Ricky's macros could be included in POV-Ray sources, so that the
> default way of calling a metal would have all that hard-wired. because users
> should be able to trust the defaults to not do that kind of thing. To sum it up
> use fresnel, ior, conserve_energy and a sum of diffuse+specular+reflection below
> 1.(most clean and shiny metals should have very very low diffuse)
>
> Seriously, nice hues and punched cards though, as I do see them!

Thank You.
It was rendered by version 3.5 probably 20 years ago.  I recovered the images
from an old hard drive, unfortunately I could not find the original source.  I
still have a couple of drives to check, hopefully the source is on one of them.
I would like to render it on a newer version.

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On 2025-08-05 07:47, Mr wrote:
> 
> could you please use conserve_energy keyword with your metals, as they are
> currently so blindingly bright that I can't see the picture ! ;-P

Conserve_energy is intended for transparent textures; it is not relevant
for metals (except maybe transparent aluminum).  The usual problem with
legacy metallic textures is diffuse and ambient finishes that are too
high, and that appears to be the problem with the typeball in this image.

> I wish Cousin Ricky's macros could be included in POV-Ray sources, so that the
> default way of calling a metal would have all that hard-wired. because users
> should be able to trust the defaults to not do that kind of thing.

I have proposed updates of metals.inc and golds.inc that use textures
derived from RC3Metal.  I will probably submit a pull request when my
Git learning curve levels off somewhat.  But this will also require a
consensus resolution to the issue I raise in the p.beta-test thread
"Ambient and diffuse for include files?"

> To sum it up
> use fresnel, ior, conserve_energy

Fresnel, ior, and conserve_energy are for non-metallic textures.  For
metals, the 'metallic' keyword takes care of all these factors.

> and a sum of diffuse+specular+reflection below
> 1.(most clean and shiny metals should have very very low diffuse)

Diffuse+reflection should be below 1; specular albedo should be
comparable to reflection, if you use use specular at all.  Yes, diffuse
should be low, but I would add that the ambient should be even lower;
the ambient-to-diffuse ratio should be no higher than for the other
finishes in your scene.  For a purely metallic texture, both diffuse and
ambient should be zero, though the world usually isn't that clean.

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