As mentioned already on some other places, I've returned to my Short-Movie
project and have begun constructing one of the sets that'll be in the first
episode (I've split the short into episodes since these supply useful
milestones for the project).

This is the entrance-tunnel that leads to the Worm's housing. The blue patch
is actually blue light coming from the outside. I'm still wondering if the
slope of the tunnel might be a little to high, but I'll adress that as the
scene moves along and comes together with the final special effects that
take place in this set.

Some stones and thin roots will be added here and there, which will also
provide some "fodder" for the water-masses that will come spluttering down
this tunnel, forcing the worm to use his panic-exit to surface. (The actual
reason for worms to surface during a rainfall is because they would
otherwise drown down there). I'm still pondering how much active simulation
and how much hand-coded animation will be used to model the flooding, but
once I get to experimenting, I'll see what works best and what provides the
most comfort in creating an animation I'd be happy with.

I know, the scene is sparse so far, but suggestions and comments on
texturing, the "roughness" of the walls or what kind of objects I might
scatter around would still be appreciated. As mentioned above, I'll put some
roots and stones in there, but maybe there's something else I should add...

Regards,
Tim

-- 
"Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
Email: tim.nikias (@) nolights.de

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"Tim Nikias v2.0" <tim.nikias (@) nolights.de> wrote in message
news:402c2d5f@news.povray.org...
> As mentioned already on some other places, I've returned to my Short-Movie
> project and have begun constructing one of the sets that'll be in the
first
> episode (I've split the short into episodes since these supply useful
> milestones for the project).
>
> This is the entrance-tunnel that leads to the Worm's housing. The blue
patch
> is actually blue light coming from the outside. I'm still wondering if the
> slope of the tunnel might be a little to high, but I'll adress that as the
> scene moves along and comes together with the final special effects that
> take place in this set.
>
> Some stones and thin roots will be added here and there, which will also
> provide some "fodder" for the water-masses that will come spluttering down
> this tunnel, forcing the worm to use his panic-exit to surface. (The
actual
> reason for worms to surface during a rainfall is because they would
> otherwise drown down there). I'm still pondering how much active
simulation
> and how much hand-coded animation will be used to model the flooding, but
> once I get to experimenting, I'll see what works best and what provides
the
> most comfort in creating an animation I'd be happy with.
>
> I know, the scene is sparse so far, but suggestions and comments on
> texturing, the "roughness" of the walls or what kind of objects I might
> scatter around would still be appreciated. As mentioned above, I'll put
some
> roots and stones in there, but maybe there's something else I should
add...

Dude, you ARE a POV-Ray ninja! Sweet job on the tunnel! How did you do that
water? Is that a cylinder with interior media intersecting with an
isosurface? The code you created would be quite a learning experience for us
if you're willing to post it :-)

To give it a really interesting feel, I'd put a light source where your
camera is. A dim one, maybe just very slightly magenta (like, 0.3, 0.29,
0.3) would really give it depth. Plus, a lot of specular highlighting on the
water and just a slight bit of specular highlighting on the walls would also
add depth.

The texture on the walls is just AWESOME. Maybe if you average a pigment
with a thin vein of gold from a wrinkles pattern would give it even more
interest. Man, how did you do that tunnel?? Is that an isosurface averaged
with a bozo/wrinkles pattern? This image has me scratching my head!

Sorry, I babble a lot when I'm excited. Great job!!!! I can't wait to see
the animation!!!!!

Post a reply to this message

Good start! I like both the model's level of roughness (not looking to 
smooth, that is) and the textures. The comic look also suits what I've 
seen of your worm, yet, fine.

For the detail objects I'd go for roots and stones (as you mentioned), 
perhaps some really tiny bones (although that's a real cliche), and if 
you don't care that much about realism things like spiderwebs (don't 
think real spiders build that small webs), supporting bars made from 
wood (like the ones in goldmines, would be fine if you want to go for a 
real comic like movie), and perhaps some things which everyone of us 
lost out in nature (like coins. although I suggest using only very small 
amounts of them, like not more than one coin at all *g*)...

About the water: I'd give Rune's particle system a try. It is really 
easy to set up and can give great results (depends on how much control 
you need over the particles). Or just use your own one if is built for 
such situations. You may also look at your LSSM macros for creating some 
puddles with raindrops falling in :)

I'm really looking forward to see some animations.

Keep up the good work
Florian

Post a reply to this message

Hi Daniel!

> Dude, you ARE a POV-Ray ninja! Sweet job on the tunnel! How did you do
that
> water? Is that a cylinder with interior media intersecting with an
> isosurface? The code you created would be quite a learning experience for
us
> if you're willing to post it :-)

Ehm, actually, there is no water in the scene yet, this is just the tunnel.
As mentioned in my original post, the blue patch in the rear is blue light
coming from the outside. Otherwise, the rear end would have been in shadow.
Since the scene is meant to take place during nighttime, the light from
outside is more blue than white.

> To give it a really interesting feel, I'd put a light source where your
> camera is. A dim one, maybe just very slightly magenta (like, 0.3, 0.29,
> 0.3) would really give it depth. Plus, a lot of specular highlighting on
the
> water and just a slight bit of specular highlighting on the walls would
also
> add depth.

There is a lightsource just above the camera which lights the front part of
the tunnel. As mentioned above, no water in the scene to add specular
highlights to.As for specular highlights for the walls: their rough and raw
earth, not polished, but I'll see what I can do.

> The texture on the walls is just AWESOME. Maybe if you average a pigment
> with a thin vein of gold from a wrinkles pattern would give it even more
> interest. Man, how did you do that tunnel?? Is that an isosurface averaged
> with a bozo/wrinkles pattern? This image has me scratching my head!

Regarding the texture: Its actually a mixture of two textures, one for the
lighter earth (the path the worms tends to walk along) and one for the rough
earth. The rough earth is a granite pattern, the lighter one a crackle
pattern. Both textures are uv-mapped with a turbulented gradient x to map
the smoother part to the floor.

The tunnel itself is a mesh, creating by extruding a circle along a
Bezier-Spline implementation of mine, and then turbulence the positions in
relation to their surface normal: Ceiling gets turbulated more than the
floor. To turbulate the positions, I simply use vturbulence and use the
original position as basis for where to sample the turbulence vector.

> Sorry, I babble a lot when I'm excited. Great job!!!! I can't wait to see
> the animation!!!!!

Oh, the animation will still take quiet some time, but thanks for the
praise.

Regards,
Tim

-- 
"Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
Email: tim.nikias (@) nolights.de

Post a reply to this message

> Good start! I like both the model's level of roughness (not looking to
> smooth, that is) and the textures. The comic look also suits what I've
> seen of your worm, yet, fine.

Thanks! I am still undecided if the way the tunnel looks now is near-final
and will undergo some tweaking just for the animation, but remain like that
for the most part, but it seems I don't have to change that much so far.

> For the detail objects I'd go for roots and stones (as you mentioned),
> perhaps some really tiny bones (although that's a real cliche), and if
> you don't care that much about realism things like spiderwebs (don't
> think real spiders build that small webs), supporting bars made from
> wood (like the ones in goldmines, would be fine if you want to go for a
> real comic like movie), and perhaps some things which everyone of us
> lost out in nature (like coins. although I suggest using only very small
> amounts of them, like not more than one coin at all *g*)...

One coin is a great idea, don't know for sure about those spiderwebs. The
worm isn't that lazy and will have a proper, nice home (with kitchen and all
:-) so cleaning the entrance area might be one of his daily jobs. That'd
apply to the bones as well. As for those supporting beams: nah, that would
look too much like a mine, especially the size the beams would have to be
(texturing etc) to fit the size of a worm would make it complicated to get
an appropriate amout of realism. I think I'll go for one or two coins.

> About the water: I'd give Rune's particle system a try. It is really
> easy to set up and can give great results (depends on how much control
> you need over the particles). Or just use your own one if is built for
> such situations. You may also look at your LSSM macros for creating some
> puddles with raindrops falling in :)

Well, the LSSM will definitely be used once I get to the scenes where is
apartment is flooded and he's trying to get out. My own particle system
doesn't have the amount of object interaction I'd need (actually, it has
none :-). But since I need lots of control on the particles, I won't use
Rune's either. What I wanted to do is script a little mass-particle system
with real low overhead, no special features, just something which will spit
out hundreds of particles and keep them inside the tube.

> I'm really looking forward to see some animations.

Me too. I hope I get it to a level of realism sufficient for a
cartoony-shortmovie, but also looking kinda real.

Thanks for the comment,
Tim

-- 
"Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
Email: tim.nikias (@) nolights.de

Post a reply to this message

"Tim Nikias v2.0" <tim.nikias (@) nolights.de> wrote in message
news:402cc050$1@news.povray.org...
> Hi Daniel!
>
> Ehm, actually, there is no water in the scene yet, this is just the
tunnel.
> As mentioned in my original post, the blue patch in the rear is blue light
> coming from the outside. Otherwise, the rear end would have been in
shadow.
> Since the scene is meant to take place during nighttime, the light from
> outside is more blue than white.

Oh, I misunderstood :-) Hey, a way to get some water coming down the tunnel
might be to take a solid box water-like and have it at a slight angle
underneath the tunnel, just high enough to peek through the floor. Then, by
sliding it down, it will appear like water is filling in the cracks. Also,
by making the box a height-field and animating the waves, you can get the
rippling effect, and even have it slide up the sides back-and-forth as it
comes down.

> > To give it a really interesting feel, I'd put a light source where your
> > camera is. A dim one, maybe just very slightly magenta (like, 0.3, 0.29,
> > 0.3) would really give it depth. Plus, a lot of specular highlighting on
> the
> > water and just a slight bit of specular highlighting on the walls would
> also
> > add depth.
>
> There is a lightsource just above the camera which lights the front part
of
> the tunnel. As mentioned above, no water in the scene to add specular
> highlights to.As for specular highlights for the walls: their rough and
raw
> earth, not polished, but I'll see what I can do.

Cool.

> > The texture on the walls is just AWESOME. Maybe if you average a pigment
> > with a thin vein of gold from a wrinkles pattern would give it even more
> > interest. Man, how did you do that tunnel?? Is that an isosurface
averaged
> > with a bozo/wrinkles pattern? This image has me scratching my head!
>
> Regarding the texture: Its actually a mixture of two textures, one for the
> lighter earth (the path the worms tends to walk along) and one for the
rough
> earth. The rough earth is a granite pattern, the lighter one a crackle
> pattern. Both textures are uv-mapped with a turbulented gradient x to map
> the smoother part to the floor.

Cool.

> The tunnel itself is a mesh, creating by extruding a circle along a
> Bezier-Spline implementation of mine, and then turbulence the positions in
> relation to their surface normal: Ceiling gets turbulated more than the
> floor. To turbulate the positions, I simply use vturbulence and use the
> original position as basis for where to sample the turbulence vector.

Ah, I see. Cool. It might be possible to create a tunnel with an isosurface
and average a pattern in it. I'm gonna try that this weekend sometime when I
need a break from writing my research paper. I've already created cylinders
and stuff with isosurfaces (real easy, but hard to visualize, imho) and I
might be able to pull it off. Then, you'd get pretty much infinite
resolution on the tunnel.

> > Sorry, I babble a lot when I'm excited. Great job!!!! I can't wait to
see
> > the animation!!!!!
>
> Oh, the animation will still take quiet some time, but thanks for the
> praise.

Thank you for sharing this with us! :-)

Post a reply to this message

> Oh, I misunderstood :-) Hey, a way to get some water coming down the
tunnel
> might be to take a solid box water-like and have it at a slight angle
> underneath the tunnel, just high enough to peek through the floor. Then,
by
> sliding it down, it will appear like water is filling in the cracks. Also,
> by making the box a height-field and animating the waves, you can get the
> rippling effect, and even have it slide up the sides back-and-forth as it
> comes down.

That "rising box" kinda thing is often done in PC games, and lacks some sort
of real physical interaction with the environment it is "flooding". I'll get
to that later, first, another quote:

> It might be possible to create a tunnel with an isosurface
> and average a pattern in it. I'm gonna try that this weekend sometime when
I
> need a break from writing my research paper. I've already created
cylinders
> and stuff with isosurfaces (real easy, but hard to visualize, imho) and I
> might be able to pull it off. Then, you'd get pretty much infinite
> resolution on the tunnel.

The problem with the isosurfaces is that I can't outsource those for
heavy-duty calculations to a different programming language. An option I
wanted to keep open was to have POV-Ray spit some initial data, and then do
processing intensive calculations with Java. Isosurfaces can't be used
outside of POV-Ray. Another main reason for me not use isosurfaces is
because I don't have too much experience with them, and I doubt that I would
be able to do the same kind of displacement to the walls like I do now, at
least not that easily.

That aside, the approach for the effects I'm thinking about will probably
work best with a mesh (since it may be outsourced as well)...

Regards,
Tim

-- 
"Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
Email: tim.nikias (@) nolights.de

Post a reply to this message

"Tim Nikias v2.0" <tim.nikias (@) nolights.de> wrote in message
news:402cea89$1@news.povray.org...
> > Oh, I misunderstood :-) Hey, a way to get some water coming down the
> tunnel
> > might be to take a solid box water-like and have it at a slight angle
> > underneath the tunnel, just high enough to peek through the floor. Then,
> by
> > sliding it down, it will appear like water is filling in the cracks.
Also,
> > by making the box a height-field and animating the waves, you can get
the
> > rippling effect, and even have it slide up the sides back-and-forth as
it
> > comes down.
>
> That "rising box" kinda thing is often done in PC games, and lacks some
sort
> of real physical interaction with the environment it is "flooding". I'll
get
> to that later, first, another quote:

That's true -- it becomes less realistic as the water moves faster. If it
just trickles in, it's usually okay, but if it is rushing down, it'll
appear -- weird. That is why a height-field with it as well might work well.
But, it looks like you'll actually do a simulation, which is even better.

> > It might be possible to create a tunnel with an isosurface
> > and average a pattern in it. I'm gonna try that this weekend sometime
when
> I
> > need a break from writing my research paper. I've already created
> cylinders
> > and stuff with isosurfaces (real easy, but hard to visualize, imho) and
I
> > might be able to pull it off. Then, you'd get pretty much infinite
> > resolution on the tunnel.
>
> The problem with the isosurfaces is that I can't outsource those for
> heavy-duty calculations to a different programming language. An option I
> wanted to keep open was to have POV-Ray spit some initial data, and then
do
> processing intensive calculations with Java. Isosurfaces can't be used
> outside of POV-Ray. Another main reason for me not use isosurfaces is
> because I don't have too much experience with them, and I doubt that I
would
> be able to do the same kind of displacement to the walls like I do now, at
> least not that easily.

Ah, I get it. That's a good point. One of the great things about isosurfaces
is that they are built from functions (or a collection of functions) so you
are able to precicely calcalate a point on the surface at any point in space
by using the same functions. However, if you don't have software that uses
those functions, then you're basically hosed. You're giving me ideas for my
overlyambitious suite of 3d apps I'm building -- I'll add "isosurface to
mesh" to the list of would-be-nices. Because you can know the point in
space, converting it to a mesh is possible (with diminished resolution).
Right now, I'm working on a Poser (.obj) -> POV-Ray with hair generation
program (a replacement for PoseRay), and then COLDstitch which is a
replacement for HamaPatch/Wings3D, and of course my research papers for my
degree which have to take priority, so I can't promise anything soon for
that (I'll probably build it in to COLDstitch as a plug-in). 3D is my hobby
now (it was my job once) and I'm starting to love it again. I'm still more
technical than artistic, though, which is why I love watching you guys make
stuff -- it really inspires me (and makes me a little jealous, but jealousy
is a good thing -- it motivates) :-)_

> That aside, the approach for the effects I'm thinking about will probably
> work best with a mesh (since it may be outsourced as well)...
>
> Regards,
> Tim

Post a reply to this message

"Tim Nikias v2.0" <tim.nikias (@) nolights.de> wrote in message
news:402c2d5f@news.povray.org...

Looks nice. It's difficult to judge without some idea of haw large the
worm will be in relation to the tunnel. Have you done any work on a
"running" animation for the worm yet?

 -Shay

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Florian Brucker wrote:
> and perhaps some things which everyone of us 
> lost out in nature (like coins.

Or an old plastic army man.

Man, we were running over them with lawnmowers 10 years after we stopped 
playing in the sand pile. :-)

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA USA (PST)
   I am in geocentric orbit, supported by
   a quantum photon exchange drive....

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