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From: Ken Matassa
Subject: Still using Moray DOS
Date: 24 May 2000 04:09:31
Message: <392B4D53.6B45@pacbell.net>
I still look into this forum from time to time, hoping there are others
out there still using the DOS version of Moray. why do I? Because
windows sucks, and I don't have the funds yet to build a Linux Box.
Hopfully, by the time I have a Linux box up and running Povray, a Linux
port of Moray will be in the offing. Until then, It's DOS Moray for me.

Ken Matassa


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From: Warp
Subject: Re: Still using Moray DOS
Date: 24 May 2000 07:53:34
Message: <392b8a7e@news.povray.org>
Ken Matassa <kma### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
: why do I? Because windows sucks

  That is, of course, true.
  The bad thing is that DOS sucks even more.
  The only good thing about DOS is the command line parser, but even that is
quite s***. Luckily you can get decent command line parsers for DOS, eg. 4DOS.
More luckily 4DOS works also under Windows.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/


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From: Rick [Kitty5]
Subject: Re: Still using Moray DOS
Date: 24 May 2000 09:28:40
Message: <392ba0c8@news.povray.org>
> : why do I? Because windows sucks

windows may suck, but for lack of a better alternative i am not going to
force myself back 10 years just because i am not to keen on some of its
inadequacys, and lack of real alternatives.

after all, if we weren't using windows, we would be using Mac's, and that is
far far worse.

I would rather by at the mercy of bill's whims, than forced to bin
everything every couple of years because the 'thinking different' head of
apple has just decided that the old system was crap. at least in bill's camp
they do at least make a decent attempt to maintain compatibility and
continuity between versions (and I am not buying my hardware from them as
well)

if apple were in MS's position now we really would be shouting monopoly.

windows works, not to well at times, but it works, and from one person who
depends totally on my computer for my income, I do have little alternative.
I either go PC or Mac, and windows or Mac OS.

other OS's do not come into the equation, there is simply not the software,
and I do not have the time or the inclination to bin everything, move to a
fringe OS, learn a new system and how to do what I was doing before quite
happily, only now I feel like I am back in the windows 3.1 days, and am
doing everything in an app that gives GUI a bad name.

in another 5 years or so the picture my be different, but at the moment
windows is king, and to be honest, I quite like it.

Rick


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From: Warp
Subject: Re: Still using Moray DOS
Date: 24 May 2000 09:55:06
Message: <392ba6fa@news.povray.org>
I am in the very lucky position of being able to work and get my income
with a non-microsoft and non-intel platform (Solaris for UltraSparc) making
generic and portable C++ programs instead of Windows-specific programs.
  I really am happy about this job. This might change in the future (specially
when I graduate), but I'll try to enjoy this enviable situation as long as
I can.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/


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From: Lutz Kretzschmar
Subject: Re: Still using Moray DOS
Date: 24 May 2000 09:56:33
Message: <re9nis83vos028r3nucpth39c25g4n9nrt@4ax.com>
Hi Ken Matassa, you recently wrote in moray.dos:

> Because windows sucks ...
While I don't think that Windows is the best thing since sliced bread,
and it has its deficiencies, I certainly don't think it sucks....

And Moray For Windows is much faster and easier to develop under
Windows.

> a Linux port of Moray will be in the offing. 
Don't hold your breath. Developing complex GUI programs for Linux
sucks. You have a myriad of GUI toolkits, libraries and compilers to
choose from and you still can't be sure that all Linux users can run
the binaries.

And only now are we slowly beginning to see a half-way decent
integrated development (KDevelop) for C++ programming that Windows has
had for years (Borland C, Visual C++). 

Anyway, we are keeping an eye on Linux development, but no promises.
I think VMWare ($$) (www.vmware.com is currently your best bet for
running Moray under Linux.

- Lutz
  email : lut### [at] stmuccom
  Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray


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From: Peter Popov
Subject: Re: Still using Moray DOS
Date: 24 May 2000 21:10:40
Message: <44hois0rvrsau5a0ecsnb53ku20mp96dvq@4ax.com>
On Wed, 24 May 2000 11:56:51 +0200, Lutz Kretzschmar <lut### [at] stmuccom>
wrote:

>Don't hold your breath. Developing complex GUI programs for Linux
>sucks. You have a myriad of GUI toolkits, libraries and compilers to
>choose from and you still can't be sure that all Linux users can run
>the binaries.

As my Unix guru says, "Programming under X is like taking a square
root of pi in Roman numerals." :))


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg


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From: Lutz Kretzschmar
Subject: Re: Still using Moray DOS
Date: 25 May 2000 08:24:52
Message: <cpopis86ak499bth2hiup69hbqj4j9qhbn@4ax.com>
Hi Peter Popov, you recently wrote in moray.dos:

> As my Unix guru says, "Programming under X is like taking a square
> root of pi in Roman numerals." :))
Hehe, ouch! There are a number of toolkits (Qt, GTK+, KDE and others)
that make life a bit easier, but not nearly as easy as hooking into
STL or MFC under Windows.

- Lutz
  email : lut### [at] stmuccom
  Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray


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From: Ian Burgmyer
Subject: Re: Still using Moray DOS
Date: 11 Jun 2000 06:46:45
Message: <394335d5$1@news.povray.org>
"Lutz Kretzschmar" <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote in message
news:cpopis86ak499bth2hiup69hbqj4j9qhbn@4ax.com...
> There are a number of toolkits (Qt, GTK+, KDE and others)

That's the whole problem.  There's too many.

> that make life a bit easier, but not nearly as easy as hooking into
> STL or MFC under Windows.

That's why I'm trying to learn Visual C++ and sticking to console
programming with Linux.  Sorry, but X isn't my (programming) bag, baby.

BTW, what's STL?

--
This message brought to you by:
-=< Ian (the### [at] hotmailcom >=-

Please visit my site at http://spectere2000.cjb.net! :)


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From: Lutz Kretzschmar
Subject: Re: Still using Moray DOS
Date: 11 Jun 2000 11:02:56
Message: <cds6ksktoa5tipm9c4e4er5nkqr0tlh400@4ax.com>
Hi Ian Burgmyer, you recently wrote in moray.dos:

> BTW, what's STL?
Standard Template Library. A collection of standard data structures
like arrays, lists and others. STL is available for just about every
platform. I was originally thinking about ATL, which is a thin Win32
API wrapper (as opposed to MFC which is a thicker wrapper).

- Lutz
  email : lut### [at] stmuccom
  Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray


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From: Warp
Subject: Re: Still using Moray DOS
Date: 11 Jun 2000 11:09:58
Message: <39437385@news.povray.org>
Lutz Kretzschmar <lut### [at] stmuccom> wrote:
:> BTW, what's STL?
: Standard Template Library. A collection of standard data structures
: like arrays, lists and others. STL is available for just about every
: platform.

  Strictly speaking the STL exists no more, since now all those templates
are part of the ANSI C++ standard.
  However, it's easier to talk about those templates as STL and it's not
a too bad sin to use that name :)

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/


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