On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:17:55 +0200, Andreas Kreisig <and### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> > http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/19709/127888/MyCar.jpg
> > http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/30145/214068/recar3dc5.jpg
> > http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/22626/156738/susp.jpg
> > http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/30945/220060/FORDTRCK.jpg
> > http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/31112/221106/WALL.jpg
>
> That's exactly what I mean: this images shows something like a car, but no 
> really car.

Is that becouse they have no name ?

> When I write cars I mean something like this:
>
> http://www.kk.iij4u.or.jp/~knight/images/gallery_image/enzo_re.jpg
> http://www.ays-arts.de/gallery/lw7/mz6-01.jpg
> http://www.simonreeves.co.uk/3d/rs6/rs6front.jpg

You mean level of details ? Background ? Making exactly along sheet of plans ?
In what way those cars are better then those from my links ? And why Nekar has
won with his model?

> > You have to understand that everything what modeller do is just some
> > interactive action to get input for algorithm performed over primitive
> > objects and textures to make some complexity which looks soft, organic
> > etc.
>
> The difference is that a modeller like Maya or XSI don't need algorithms to 
> work with primitives.

They usually need triangles. Triangle is one of primitives, isn't it?

> They just store the x|y|z coordinates. BTW: to work 
> with primitives (CSG) is somewhat outdated. Nowadays most artists use 
> boxmodelling, splinecages or something similar.

And some use POV. Please do not compare images from povray.binaries.images with
works of artists working with other packages. Please compare POV artists with
artists in other packages. Please compare scientist working with POV and
scientist working with other packages.

> Impossible or very hard to 
> do with POV-Rays SDL. To get smoothed results you have to use NURBS, 
> subdivision surfaces, Hypernurbs, weighted vertices or whatever. All this 
> needs a modeller when you want to get good results because you need the 
> optical feedback.

Yes and no. Nobody is saying POV is for every work.

> > And as such this action can be recreated in scripting language with
> > necessary programing capabilities and set of 3D functions to create
> > primitives. The difference is that in modeller everything is 'on-screen'
> > in windows while in SDL everything is 'in-manual' and 'in-brain' ;-)
>
> True but misleading. When I make something more complex in Wings3D (a great 
> tool!!) then I have to tweak and fine tune a lot. When you use an algorithm 
> based language you don't have enough controll to move one vertex by one. 

Yes. Because you develope algorithm to work the way you want. If algorithm is
good you do not need to move one vertex. If algorithm is not best you can
"postprocess" otput outputing data and introducing some noise with just one
loop. And I do not say POV is better than modelers here. Some users work one
way. Some users work another way. Some minds are oriented on view and some are
oriented on concept, coordinates, paths and properities expressed with values.
For some pixel resolution is the truth. For some it is floating point accuracy.

> And you don't want to tell me that you make an object by using a hand coded 
> mesh2?

That's because you seem think trangle-oriented modelling is the only way.
CSG is another:
http://news.povray.org/search/advanced/?s=Rasmussen&g=povray.binaries.images&a=1
Isosurface is another:
http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/13780/
http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.images/13083/
Blob is another. Media is another.

> This is not realistic of course but try something like this with SDL. I 
> needed 5 hours to build it in Wings - it was just a test to figure out how 
> Wings works.

Great! You made head in one tool. Now you can use another tool to make another
element of scene. In other words. You have head. Put a tree in perspective. Nice
unique tree. With enough resolution for high quality image (8000x6000). With
great SDL macros written by somebody it takes seconds. And you can modify it to
go outside of some area (head?). Can you be faster with modeller ?

> Hey, I don't want to start a flame war here. POV-Ray is a great tool but the 
> SDL is limited by its concept not by the user. At least under practical 
> circumstances.

No. Under lazyness and unpatience of user ;-)

ABX

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