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On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 17:41:25 -0400, jr wrote:
>> Everyone's lives are different. You don't get to dictate the terms
>> that other people live their lives by.
>
> there you go again, "you don't get to dictate..". what makes you think
> I am trying to tell anyone how to their life?
The fact that you're bitching about stagnation in development, and
essentially trying to order people to "get with the program and get some
work done" (I know, not a direct quote - this is how you're coming
across).
> wrt the above, I simply point out that while some small teams, right
> down to the smallest, manage to .. get on, that is not the case with
> POV-Ray, alas. (or so it seems)
ie, you're stating your expectation that the developers get to work on
the future of POV-Ray, and trying to apply pressure to do something.
You don't get to do that. You're not their boss.
>> > (for some reason everybody seems real .. coy when talk of Moray
>> > looms)
>>
>> Hey, I'd like to see Moray come back to life as well. But I can't
>> contribute to it, and I sure as hell am not going to criticize people
>> who have their own busy lives to live for not doing something that I'm
>> not willing or able to step up and contribute to.
>
> eg had the source been put some place public, like the wiki, or even
> github, more than just a select few could have at least have a look at
> the .. task at hand.
And if you read a little about the history, you'd know that the code
*can't* be published publicly because there is proprietary code that
needs to be scrubbed.
But it's easier to bitch than to review the information that's already
out there in order to understand.
>> Yeah, I didn't read closely enough - the link showed up weird in my
>> newsreader, and I missed it. I'll own that error on my part.
>
> thanks.
>
> and here's what I do not understand. you have admin privilege for the
> news server, and the wiki, afaik, and, guessing here, for the main
> website. so why then, as I pointed out in my initial "rant", is the
> news section so .. not news?
I don't have admin privileges for the news server or the wiki (any
more). I helped get the wiki set up, but life got busy, and I handed off
to someone else.
> surely, whether you personally or someone else with access, could have
> sometime in the past couple of years or so, added an item re the 3.8.0
> alphas? (I mean, seriously, how many minutes would one need writing
> ~150 words?)
You're making assumptions about my role within the team that simply
aren't true.
>> I don't see anyone else bitching and complaining about the state of
>> development and throwing blame around.
>>
>> The world doesn't revolve around your wants and desires, and putting
>> together a laundry list of complaints isn't really a great way to
>> motivate people to do what you want them to do.
>>
>> It's one thing to ask for an update and to be polite about it.
>
> no one's asking "for an update". have you even read the initial "rant"?
I did. And if you had just asked for an update as to what's going on, we
wouldn't be having this discussion.
But instead, you posted a whiny rant bitching about the lack of progress
on all things pov-ray.
>> I didn't see you step up in the past 13 years after Lutz handed off
>> Moray to the POV-Ray project and say "how can I help facilitate getting
>> this code reviewed and made available?".
>
> no, have not been .. povving for that long. and, in fairness, I'm not
> the first to enquire about Moray, and what's happening.
From your rant:
"then, lastly, there's the .. inertia. the "illness" of the head.
how many years have you now been sitting on the Moray source?
(hint: Tony Blair was then still Prime Minister of the UK, and the
financial crisis of 2008 was not yet on the horizon)"
That's not "enquiring about Moray and what's happening" - that's whining,
plain and simple.
"What's the latest on Moray?" - that's inquiring about the status of that
code.
>
>> If you have too delicate a disposition to be called out when you're
>> being a jerk, perhaps you should just go away. At least be adult
>> enough to own the fact that you have all the tact of a brick through a
>> window.
>
> directness, I'd call it. :-) look, I've no intention of letting this
> develop in to a .. slanging match. I am simply concerned that the
> s/ware I've grown fond of using, isn't thriving. and I'm more concerned
> now, because days turn into weeks, weeks turn into months, etc, and yet,
> no real attempt at communicating the context.
So maybe ask a question instead of whining and bitching about various
aspects that aren't moving to your personal satisfaction. Don't be a
dick about it, be respectful of the fact that people have lives, and you
don't know what they're doing.
You weren't direct. You were just plain rude.
You aren't letting this "develop in to a .. slanging match" - you started
by slinging shit. You don't get to walk away and pretend you didn't try
to start something here.
I have been a member of this community for decades. Chris and I had a
really nice reminiscence about the early days on CompuServe a few years
back. I would love to see this code thrive, but I know my own
limitations, and I understand that people get busy and their priorities
in life shift. The last thing that's needed is someone coming in here
stirring shit under the guise of "I'm doing this because I love this
software" without offering concrete ways in which they might be able to
help.
You want things to improve, start by looking over your rant and pick out
a few things you think you might be able to help with, and then instead
of talking about how "the head is ill", offer specific ways in which you
might help. Maybe that's running an IRC channel and helping promote it.
Maybe it's helping do link checks to ensure that links that are broken
don't remain so.
But what you posted to try to elicit a response? Completely useless,
pointless, and downright rude.
--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
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