Patrick Elliott wrote:
> On 1/29/2011 10:23 PM, Darren New wrote:
>> Patrick Elliott wrote:
>>> "What if they where not available to the criminals either
>>
>> That's completely unrealistic, tho. It's almost trivial to make a simple
>> firearm. Even when you're in a country under martial law being invaded
>> by an attacking country, it's not all that hard to get guns.
>>
>> Now, if you *also* disarmed the police and military, maybe that would
>> happen.
>>
>> Or, you can look at countries where *everyone* has guns and knows how to
>> use them, and see a tremendously low violent crime rate, and consider
>> that maybe the guns aren't the biggest problem to address, even if
>> reducing them would help.
>>
> Not seeing a lot of those. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

>> Understand that the reason the guns are around in the USA are for when
>> the shit hits the fan. We haven't had a whole lot of revolutions in this
>> country, in part because of the second amendment. Before you disarm
>> everyone, take into account the effect that has on how corrupt the
>> government can get, before you loudly proclaim the benefits of being
>> just as disarmed as the general population of, say, China. :-)
>>
> Imho, the second amendment doesn't have **jack** to do with it.

Sure it does. Combined with soldiers (for example) taking an oath to the 
constitution instead of the leaders, it helps.  But I'm not going to argue 
that with you.

> Assuming you could get the military to act against the people 
> it protects, the general citizenry would be out gunned,

Yes, because, you know, Afghanistan hasn't had any success in such a situation.

> The general populous being able to wave a hand gun around, 
> when facing a Mach-2 aircraft with frakking cluster bombs, is 
> meaningless. It gets more and more meaningless as things progress.

Funny. Tell them that in Iraq.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
  "How did he die?"   "He got shot in the hand."
     "That was fatal?"
          "He was holding a live grenade at the time."

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