On 1/30/2011 8:59 AM, andrel wrote:
> (while trying to answer this my power supply broke down :( had to go and
> buy a new one).
>
> On 30-1-2011 2:18, Darren New wrote:
>> andrel wrote:
>>> BTW from what I have heard guns (if you know where to get them) are
>>> not outside the budget of a 15 YO.
>>
>> A 15YO drug dealer, maybe. It's not hard to see what the price of a gun
>> is. The price *you* pay for them over there? Not so much.
>
> IIRC from a newspaper article it was in the order of €150-€200. Within
> reach of any paper-boy. Availability is mainly via Belgium, with its
> broader fire arm laws. I don't know who made them.
>
>> I.e., I doubt there's much traffic of inexpensive stolen firearms
>> between the USA and the UK.
>
> I don't think they need to be stolen.
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_special#Economic_class
>>
>> Then, if you can't actually import them, you can do this:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_gun
>>
>>> BTW I was not blaming anyone. I was just pointing out that also people
>>> abroad may die as a result of a US policy on guns. In the Netherlands
>>> they are mainly foreigners involved in drugs who get shot here, but
>>> still.
>>
>> While I understand your concern, blaming firearm deaths on other
>> countries having a big market for firearms is like blaming automobile
>> deaths on other countries having a big market for automobiles. It
>> basically doesn't really make much sense. The link between "americans
>> are allowed to have guns" to "fred shot sam in the UK" is tremendously
>> tenuous, methinks.
>
> Proving it in a particular case is rather useless. And I am not blaming
> anyone. There was a discussion on whether the net effect of the US gun
> laws is more or less victims. My point was that you might need to look
> further than your own country. What I proposed was to compare two
> situations 1) the current one where the NRA is the main direct and
> indirect factor in gun control and 2) the fictitious USA where gun
> control is comparable with e.g. the Netherlands (which is where I live
> BTW). In the latter situation not only would the market be smaller,
> there would be less choice and not being legal would have an additional
> effect on the price. All these factors would mean that the number of
> guns in other countries would also be smaller. At least that is what I
> think. That is not a moral judgement however.
> Probably the gun manufacturers and dealers would move to Canada or
> Mexico, still reducing the legal market would have an effect.
>
Not going to happen. For a large segment of the people in the US, 
especially politicians, even *suggesting* that someone else's situation 
is pertinent to the US situation is damn close to some form of 
blasphemy. Unless, of course, the one making the comparison is a right 
wing wacko, and then they ignore the actual facts, in favor of making up 
shit that they know most people won't have a clue is completely false. 
If you tried to compare to, say, the UK, their "invented" facts would 
either be to claim that their gun laws cause 500 times as many deaths, 
especially among cops, as the US, or they would lie and claim that their 
laws allowed everyone over the age of 8 to own one. Its more likely to 
be the former though, since Britain isn't "foreign" enough, and its just 
possible a large number of people would know that claiming everyone 
slept with one under their pillow would be seen through, even by total 
idiots.

But, its not uncommon for claims to be made about just about 
*everything* from prostitution to drugs, which try to make every country 
with even moderately different laws as a cell pool of hell, worse than 
anything we have here, and therefor, as bad as it is in the US, it would 
be worse if we even suggested adopting someone else's solutions, never 
mind actually did so.

We even get the same BS "internally". Like the bozo protesting the 
health care bill, on the basis it would bankrupt the whole country, less 
than a year after passing a near identical *state* bill, in his own 
state. I swear, sometimes living here is like wandering into some old 
village, where like one person in the whole thing ever went any place, 
and that was to the next bigger village, to sell a pig, so *everything* 
outside must be foreign, and wrong, and dangerous. Been at least twice 
this past week someone from either Canada, or even one of the eastern 
states, who has come in to the store I worked at and said, "Do you 
accept a Safeway card from out of state?" About ready to tell the next 
one, "Dah, Soviet Arizona accept all card, even from capitalist nation, 
like Nebraska!" I mean WTF?

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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